Looking at picking up a '66

[Twilight Fenrir]

Hello there! First time posting on the forums, but I've had an '89 Toronado Trofeo for years, and am looking to pick up a '66 in the next couple days if I'm lucky...

The '66 I'm looking at, is actually sitting next to the road, and seems to have been there for about 12 years. I'm up in Northern Minnesota, so the biggest concern hands-down, is rust.

The exterrior looks surprisingly clean, there are a few golf-ball sized holes in each of the fenders and quarter pannels, a few pin-holes in the back-lip of the decklid, and, oddly, a few pin-holes on the top windshield-side corners of the A-pillars. The doors are nice and clean, and there's surface-rust on all surfaces, but nothing deep. Can't see under the car, as it has 4 flat tires and is pretty low to the ground, so I'm guessing it's not pretty...

Now, I understand these are sub-frame cars, but that they essentially have a full-frame on the front 3/4s of the car, and an integrated frame on the very back, is this the case? Also, what other things should I be looking for to determine weather this is salvage-able?

The transmission doesn't seem to shift as it sits, and it is left in the "L" gear... what is the best way to go about moving it in this situation?

[Stubbe]

Just my humble opinion but I would look for a car that is in pretty good shape. Mine was strait with no rust but it still cost a fortune to restore I live in the western suburbs of Minneapolis and found this on craigs list

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/c ... 90293.html

I would rather spend $5000.00 for a good one than put $20k in and iffy one

Mike

P.S. Welcome to the forum

[Twilight Fenrir]

Just my humble opinion but I would look for a car that is in pretty good shape. Mine was strait with no rust but it still cost a fortune to restore I live in the western suburbs of Minneapolis and found this on craigs list

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/c ... 90293.html

I would rather spend $5000.00 for a good one than put $20k in and iffy one

Mike

P.S. Welcome to the forum

Maybe so... but, that takes the fun out of it! I doubt very highly I'm going to be putting $20K into it. I'll be doing all the work myself, and all the original parts are there... every piece of trim, every bolt and screw... except the original wheels. As far as I can tell, there's very little mechanically I will have to replace, just re-build. Obviously fuel lines, brake lines, and probably the brakes themselves, gas tank, exhaust system are all likely completely gone...

I actually want a project, something I can take completely apart, and put back together, a car that I built. Besides, I don't have $5,000, I'm buying a house in a month This was simply an un-missable opportunity imho. And, if I don't pick it up, it will sit there, and dissolve. Further shrinking the fleet. And, I might be able to pick it up for $300-$500... still waiting on that one though.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q226 ... 1269626043

[Stubbe]

In that case go for it you cant lose at that price

[Twilight Fenrir]

Oookay, slight snag here....

I couldn't get under the hood the last few times I went out there to check it out... couldn't figure out where the hood-release was, finally found it. And, under the hood...



Was an Oldsmobile 455....

So, not the original engine, I spoke with the father of the guy who owns the car, and he told me he rebuilt the 455 before it wound up getting parked, but he screwed up, one of the push-rods for the valves got wedged in there and got bent up. Killed the starter, so he put in a new starter, and it still wouldn't start. So, there it sits... Curiously missing its carburetor, though it does have a cloth over the intake.




He wasn't sure weather the original transmission is still in it or not.

I got around to trying to look at the underside some more, and, it's too low for me to see under it... I know on the drivers-side, half of the frame is sitting on the ground. The half I can fit my fingers under to feel seems surprisingly rust-free... but, odds are where it hits the ground is practically non-existent, correct?

Also took a look in the trunk... and I could see the ground beneath it pretty easily...




The interior is in surprisingly decent condition. Not a single crack in the dash, appholstery is in decent condition, only one torn seam. And not too dirty. And, my $3-500 seems to be spot on for what the seller was thinking...

So... opinions? Is it still worth picking up? I'm not sure what the engine is out of... will have to call later and try to find out more....

Oh, and, the VIN makes it a "Deluxe" model.

[Hasty]

My opinion, for what it's worth:
$300 to $500 is a good deal for any project, as long as you can afford it, and realize that it may never hit the road again. After all, you could go to the casino and lose that much money and come home with nothing.
Vehicles stored in that manner in Minnesota (or anywhere other than the dry southwest part of the country) tend to rust, rot, and become a part of the earth on which they sit.
If you truly plan on restoring it, you should plan on replacing or refurbishing many mechanical parts, including brake lines, fuel lines, suspension components, exhaust, fuel tank, all rubber (inc. belts, hoses, bushings, seals, and weatherstripping), floor pans, etc. That is just the equipment that has been sitting on the dirt for the last decade. Keep in mind that for every 300 - 400 Cutlass or Nova or Mustang aftermarket part sold, there is approx. only one Toronado part sold. Toros (sadly) aren't as common to own or restore, and there are only a small number of enthusiests. So plan on searching for parts for weeks or months, or making your own.

I am not trying to talk you out of it, just envoking serious thought. From my experience, one of the following will happen to that car once you decide to buy it:
1) It will sit for the next 12 years in your yard instead of the current yard.
2) You will either give up and sell it for parts or scrap once a better project comes along
(or)
3) You will find a better car while looking for parts, and this car will become your "parts" car.

However, for $300, any of the scenerios is is still an affordable endeavor, as long as you have $300 to "spend". Worst case scenerio, you could rebuild the 455 and sell it again, and you may double your money.

[Hasty]

Just a thought from looking at the pictures: that (breakerless) distributer looks to be at least 10 years newer than the car itself. That may indicate an engine from the late 70s (or just a distributer swap)

[Twilight Fenrir]

Alright, I just got off the phone with the guy, and I've got alot of really good news for me...

The engine, transmission, AND CV axles are all from a '68 Toro. So, it still has the THM-425 transmission I wanted. Plus, it has the more readily available half-axles to boot.

And, I appreciate the caution. It is something I have considered. I realize I'm looking at a multiple-year project. The fact that the engine is not orriginal kind of liberates me to do a few things I would have been hesitant to do otherwise to an all-orriginal car, such as putting in Disc Brakes. Which I understand the drum-brakes on these don't so much stop the car, as politely suggest it think about slowing down. Also, I've been promised a carb to replace the missing one, if it doesn't turn up.

With the engine, and the transmission that are in this car, I don't think I can loose, one-way or another. Plus there is almost an entire clean interrior inside, the front bumper is immaculate... the parts alone are un-questionably worth more than I will pay for the vehicle.

I've wanted one of these cars since I picked up my '89 Toronado Trofeo, did some reasearch, and found out about the '66 Toro... But, I always put it off as something I couldn't have due to their scarcity... So, this is really a dream come true. And, I want to learn more about cars, and the best way to do that, is to have to completely dis-assemble, repair, and re-assemble every nut bolt, and hose. And, I'll certainly have to do that to make this thing what it could be

With it setup in this configuration... would I be better off with a '66 Service manual, or a '68?

[Hasty]

Both!

If you only plan to get one, though, go with the '68. You'll need more help with teardown of the transmission, engine, and axles than you will with door locks, rearview mirror, and exhaust system. Those other components should be similar enough for you to be able to work through any issues, anyway.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Both!

If you only plan to get one, though, go with the '68. You'll need more help with teardown of the transmission, engine, and axles than you will with door locks, rearview mirror, and exhaust system. Those other components should be similar enough for you to be able to work through any issues, anyway.

I was more wondering about wiring... well... this car doesn't have much I suppose, just gauges, power seat, speakers, and lighting. (I love old cars) What about the vacuum systems? If I understand correctly, the headlight motors are all vacuum controlled, as well as the... um... Huh... Come to think of it, these cars don't have too many components do they?