lower ball joints STUCK

[bluecab]

Today's update;
(Doc, the motor is out.)
I tried using a bottle jack to push the lower arm off the torsion bar. Even with a stand under the arm it pushed the whole car up off the stands; not a great feeling while sitting in the engine bay.

So, I gave in and decided to take the torsion bar carrier off the frame. of course the upper bolt spins ( it seems like it is tack welded on?)

Then I attacked the passenger side, which is generally fighting me. I need to get the acetylene tank filled.

[Schurkey]

What do you mean by "the torsion bar carrier"? Are you referring to the crossmember that supports the torsion bar at the rear?

The (adjuster) bolt that goes through the torsion bar anchor has a nut at the top, but there's no way it could spin. It's essentially captured in the crossmember.

[bluecab]

Hey Shurkey,
Yes, I was trying to describe the crossmember that the rear of the torsion bars plug into. Sorry for the mis-use of part names..
The nut that was spinning is on top of the 5/8 bolt that passes thru the rubber isolators and holds the crossmember to the frame. I think if I drop that, along with both of the lower control arms I'll be able to get the torsion bars out.
I had considered trying to refurb the lower control arms while attached to the torsion bars but I think it's better to get the whole thing apart.

[Doc Hubler]

bluecab,

You can't just "drop" the crossmember. You have to loosen the rear body mounts and jack the body off the subrame. There isn't room to get the crossmember out otherwise. You shouldn't have too much trouble getting the nuts loose from the top of the crossmember. YOu need to have removed the cam bolts and released any tension on the torsion bars before you do that. You need a tool or need to make a tool to do it safely. With two of us working on it, we then were able to lift the bottom A-arm while the other pushed the torsion bars forward as described in the service manual and drop them from the crossmember. Then the have to come out of the A-arm, back the other direction toward rear of car. Or you have to remove the A-Arms from the frame, carefully being sure not to damage the torsion bars, then you can remove torsion bars from the A-arm. I'm trying to find suitable rubber biscuit replacements for the crossmember, but have not yet found what I need.

[bluecab]

Doc, you're right, I took a good look at the crossmember today and it is clear that it will not come off without separating the frame and body.
With the upper arms and spindles off and the lower a arms detached it SHOULD just slide apart, but does not.
Still thinking of ways to "push" the lower arms forward and off the torsion bars OR to "pull" the torsion bars out of the sockets on the crossmember

Thanks,
David

[Doc Hubler]

Well, just undo the two rear body mounts and jack the body up (doesn't have to go up much). Then you can remove the crossmember, or move it enough that you can get the rear of the torsion bar free (large cams will drop loose and remember you have to have removed the cam adjusting bolt and and the piece that holds that adjusting bolt or the cams don't come out), then you can take the lower A-arms off and then remove the torsion bar completely. You'll have to move the crossmember around at too great an angle for removal of the crossmember with the torsion bars in. So get torsion bars out the back first, then remove lower arms/torsion bars, then remove torsion bars from arm. Finally you can then remove the crossmenber and clean up that entire area. Perhaps the grease in your Lower arms where the torsion bar fits has hardened grease that won't allow it to go forward in the normal way, or perhaps you have it at too great an angle to get it out. You're close, and you can get it out without major surgery at this point. Get a second body to help you. It makes all the difference.

[69W34]

ain't this stuff fun, its just one frip'in after another

[Doc Hubler]

Bill,

It has been fun, and it has been very interesting to see the amazing engineering they came up with back then for the Toronado! But there is nothing left to undo on my car; that means the mountaintop has been reached. I'm not "undoing" any of the factory welds! There is nothing left to take apart (oh heck, I have to go through the AC compressor, but beyond that...).

regarding the front suspension, I'm happy with the Kantor kit. One thing not included however is the o-rings between knuckle and hub plate on the front. That keeps grease and oil from working their way out to the wheels and brake linings. You can't get them from the auto stores, they don't carry such large o-rings. I went down to the local hydraulic machine shop and got the pair for a buck.

The only thing about this project is the wheelbarrow. It must be filled with money regularly to feed the restoration. But I am starting to see the last wheelbarrow in the line. Actually, it hasn't been that bad, but if you're just getting started, it sure seems that way at times.

[bluecab]

Yesterday's update:
I took the rest of the passenger side apart without finesse. Expecting everything to be stuck made it easier, cut the shock absorber with a cutoff wheel, same for the lower ball joint stud.
Pulled all the bolts for the upper and lower arms and the lower arm just slid right off the torsion bar.
Now that I can see the assembly apart I have a better idea of how to get it apart.
I think i'll try to slide the torsion bar INTO the lower arm socket to clean out whatever is blocking it from coming out. If that does not work I think drilling a hole and welding a nut on the end of the socket in the arm would allow a bolt to thread in and apply force to the end of the torsion bar. I can weld up the hole later or maybe put a zerk fitting on there to grease the end of the bar.
I'll let you know how it works out...

[bluecab]

Finally!
It came off by blowing the socket out with compressed air, pushing it back onto the torsion bar, more PB blaster, pushing it back and forth a few times and then finally,, the air hammer, which I guess just vibrated the rust loose.
There was not even a whole lot of rust in there. It may have been accumulated road debris to the spray paint put there by the 14 year old who "worked" on the car last.