Help what is this??

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followme21
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Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:28 am
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Years Owned: 66 toronado

Help what is this??

Postby followme21 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:35 pm

Ive been having an intermittent issue with my 66 toro not starting. I can here a clicking sound coming from under the dash when I hit the key. I have to jump the starter to get to start. I finally dug into it. I found what appears to be a relay of some sort behind the lower left kick panel. It has three termals on it. (Pink) (red) (black). This thing appears to be a relay and when I hit the key switch it just clicks, I assume its suppose to send power to the starter solenoid? What is this thing called? And where can I get a new one. Oh and when its not screwed to the body of the car, nothing happends. But when I ground this relay thing to the body it will then click when attempting to start the car?? I will attempt to add a pic.
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followme21
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:28 am
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Years Owned: 66 toronado

Re: Help what is this??

Postby followme21 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:36 pm

Another pic
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bcroe
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:25 pm
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Years Owned: 79 Toronado or Eldorado

Re: Help what is this??

Postby bcroe » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:17 pm

I do not see that device in the 66 factory service manual wiring. But is seems
to be a relay, perhaps part of an anti theft option. Likely one wire comes from
the ign switch and goes to 12V when turned to START. It would drive the coil
hen starting. The other coil connection would be to ground thru the case.

One wire I would expect to be at 12V all the time (maybe the red). No, better
find out why. One wire I would expect to go the starter solenoid terminal, and
would only receive 12V when the relay is operated by 12V to the coil. Check it out.
Bruce Roe

followme21
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:28 am
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Years Owned: 66 toronado

Re: Help what is this??

Postby followme21 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:34 pm

Thanks for the reply. Ill get after it with a test light tomorrow. Not even sure how to bypass it for a test as no marking on the case. I found a relay online used on gm's back then that looks similar that was used for a ignition buzzer or somthing. The wires going into this were all very heavy gauge wire. And when it doesnt work. Nothing happends.. No crank or anything. It will start if i leave the key on them jump the soilnoid.

Otto Skorzeny
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Years Owned: 1966 Toronado

Re: Help what is this??

Postby Otto Skorzeny » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:00 pm

The screw holding it to the body of the car is the ground so that's why nothing happens when it's not attached. My car is currently at my mom's house otherwise I'd go look to see if it has one of those.

In your opinion does it look like a factory installed item? Matching wiring, professional installation, etc?

Are the wires to it wrapped with others in the wiring harness or are they separate and running over and under everything else? If it's some sort of after market anti-theft device, e.g. ignition cutoff switch, I might expect to find a hidden toggle switch somewhere under the dash or in the glove box.

When you trace the wires, I'd be interested to know what they attach to.

followme21
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:28 am
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Years Owned: 66 toronado

Re: Help what is this??

Postby followme21 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:07 pm

Yes looks like a factory job to me. The pink wire runs around to the back of the fuse box, its attached to a terminal on the rear of the box itself, i'm not sure yet about the red one, i'm going to look here this evening when i get home and do some more tracing, and testing, but to answer your first question Yes..it look factory to me, factory plug as well. I can snap of pic of that also.

followme21
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:28 am
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Years Owned: 66 toronado

Re: Help what is this??

Postby followme21 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:57 pm

Here it is installed. appears to be factory, here is what I discovered, the black wire is hot all the time, the two pink wires (go to the same terminal) is hot with key on and in crank position, the red wire/white tracer wire is hot with the key in acc, but no power when in crank position, so I traced the red wire and it splits into that other plug you can see in the pic and splits and goes under the carpet to the middle of the car and rear of the car, maybe power seats?? so then i think maybe it always makes this clicking noise and has nothing to do with engine crank? I then start looking at the ing switch, the purple wire on the back of the switch is hot when in crank position, Im making the assumption that is the same purple wire going to the starter solenoid, as it is very hard to trace under the dash.... so I bared a piece of the purple wire under the dash and ran a jumper to the starter and it started, I guess my question is what to do next? do i just clean up and make some better splice and connections and roll with it? any idea where else the purple wire under the dash goes to besides the neutral start switch?
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bcroe
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:25 pm
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Years Owned: 79 Toronado or Eldorado

Help what is this??

Postby bcroe » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:52 am

From that description, I think it just controls some accessory during cranking, not
controlling cranking. Since it clicks, I bet the ign switch is OK, but the start solenoid
current must also flow through the shift position switch to the solenoid. My guess
is, that switch is out of adjustment, try moving the arm around on the column. If
so the real problem might be the multi push rods to the trans are sloppy, maybe a
rubber insert has rotted away. Bruce Roe

Otto Skorzeny
Posts: 965
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:41 pm
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Years Owned: 1966 Toronado

Re: Help what is this??

Postby Otto Skorzeny » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:57 pm

Yes, that definitely looks factory.

And adding to what Bruce said, the wiring diagram shows the pink wire as in your photo coming from the coil to the ignition switch ( labeled ign #1). From there it goes to a junction labeled Trans. Cont. (transmission control) where an orange wire goes to the transmission control switch (switch pitch/downshift).


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