66 Toro Ignition system question

[xgecko]

Just keep in mind that the High Energy part of HEI comes from the 45,000 to 50,000 volt coil. Making a standard distributor electronic does not alter this aspect; you will still benefit from the upgrade to HEI.

As an aside it is actually not that hard to swap the distributor; for the safest and simplest route rotate the engine to TDC on Cyl 1, make careful note of the position of the rotor on the original distributor as well as the position of the housing relative to the block, pull the old distributor, put the new one in, and make sure the marks line up. Attach the power supply wire to a switched source, put your plug wires back (it is a good idea to upgrade to 8mm spiral wires) and you are back in biz. It is one of the easiest upgrades possible. It can take less than an hour to complete.

You can get a decent HEI unit on Ebay for $40-$80 or, for a presumably better unit, you can go to Summit Racing and get their SUM850006 HEI distributor for $159 and know you have a quality part. You can also investigate higher current modules; in fact, my plan is to move up to an MSD ignition next year. I will run straight HEI for this summer then upgrade when I pull the motor again and tear it down for the Hydraulic cam, steel crank and new pistons in a second block. I will reuse the stock rebuilt short block I am in the process of assemblilng in my 68 which is not intended to be as high performance a car...

If your rebuild is much more than a few months out, and especially if you are going to wait until next fall, this is well worth doing sooner rather than later.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Just keep in mind that the High Energy part of HEI comes from the 45,000 to 50,000 volt coil. Making a standard distributor electronic does not alter this aspect; you will still benefit from the upgrade to HEI.

As an aside it is actually not that hard to swap the distributor; for the safest and simplest route rotate the engine to TDC on Cyl 1, make careful note of the position of the rotor on the original distributor as well as the position of the housing relative to the block, pull the old distributor, put the new one in, and make sure the marks line up. Attach the power supply wire to a switched source, put your plug wires back (it is a good idea to upgrade to 8mm spiral wires) and you are back in biz. It is one of the easiest upgrades possible. It can take less than an hour to complete.

You can get a decent HEI unit on Ebay for $40-$80 or, for a presumably better unit, you can go to Summit Racing and get their SUM850006 HEI distributor for $159 and know you have a quality part. You can also investigate higher current modules; in fact, my plan is to move up to an MSD ignition next year. I will run straight HEI for this summer then upgrade when I pull the motor again and tear it down for the Hydraulic cam, steel crank and new pistons in a second block. I will reuse the stock rebuilt short block I am in the process of assemblilng in my 68 which is not intended to be as high performance a car...

If your rebuild is much more than a few months out, and especially if you are going to wait until next fall, this is well worth doing sooner rather than later.

But I already bought the Pertronix thingy T.T At the time I investigated HEI distributors, the only ones I could find started at $300... and, that's still true, except the one on Summit... I never looked there :-s

Alright, I've got enough, I can swap it up instead. Maybe I can get a couple bucks back selling it on eBay or something...

Do you have to alter the air cleaner with all of them though? Or is it just whatever one that previous poster had?

[Twilight Fenrir]

Those HEI Distributors are waaay too big... I'd have to chop a pretty big piece of the aircleaner out to be able to wedge one of them in there... An external coil one should fit, so I'm looking into those. But, so far, they're ludicrously expensive... Haven't looked on eBay yet.

Might consider this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-850095/

[xgecko]

Yeah, my 68 has the motor in it and I do see what you mean; I did not get a chance to test it but I can see what you are running into.

This is a classic case of the differing viewpoints that we have. You are highly focused on originality as a key goal, and that is certainly a highly valid goal. However, as we see, it does have its costs. I recall that the reason it did not affect me in the past was that I used an open element air cleaner where you want to use the very nice looking double snorkel 425 Toronado air cleaner. I am looking at some Spectre low profile cold air induction systems for later on, I will go with an open element air cleaner for now.

Here is an example of the cold air induction system I am considering:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-7739/

Your link does provide a good option to resolve this. Truth be told what matters is the high energy aspect of the HEI which can be attained using an external coil, and as long as the spark signal does not short between rotor pins (this is part of the reason the HEI cap is so large, to help control the spark path) you should be fine.

You can also consider distributorless ignition systems; if you want more on this drop me a line.

[Twilight Fenrir]

you want to use the very nice looking double snorkel 425 Toronado air cleaner. I am looking at some Spectre low profile cold air induction systems for later on, I will go with an open element air cleaner for now.

Here is an example of the cold air induction system I am considering:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-7739/

Well, I'm looking for stealthy ways to improve performance If it's not blindingly obvious, and it will improve it, i'll do it. The more significant the improvement, the more willing I am to fudge what's there... I was willing to make a small chop into the aircleaner, but with the in-cap coil, I'd have to make a big chop. Removing some of the top as well by the looks of it.

I was really thinking of making a cold air induction for my '66... I thought it would be really cool to use those eyebrows above the headlights as air scoops. Put in some of those pretty aluminum plates on a pin running horizontally, so when you step on the gas pedal they open, like those rediculous air-cleaners on really beafed out engines. Then fabricating a pair of hoses to run up, and clip onto the ends of the factory air cleaner.

Oddly, I find this to be an acceptable modification, whereas a great big chop in the cleaner isn't... Maybe it doesn't make alot of sense, but I've never been very good at that anyway.

[xgecko]

I have to support your reticence to chop the air cleaner. While I am a huge fan of modernization, I tend to be reluctant to hack existing parts in that way; this is why I find it acceptable to completely replace the air cleaner but am not in favor of chopping the stock air cleaner to fit.

I am really interested in these Spectre units. They are low profile and provide a look that is much more consistent with modern designs however I will need to take into account the possiblity that I will go with port fuel injection sometime in the future. If I am going to drop $300+ on a new air intake assembly I need to be sure it will work with every upgrade I will do.

Not sure you caught my comment about distributorless ignition. There is a reasonbly priced way to accomplish this and it would give you all the bennies of the HEI without the need for the big cap. Let me know if you want more on this.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Not sure you caught my comment about distributorless ignition. There is a reasonbly priced way to accomplish this and it would give you all the bennies of the HEI without the need for the big cap. Let me know if you want more on this.

Heh, I caught it, I just ignored it Gotta have a distributor.

Odd question, very unrelated to the original topic, but I.noticed when I was looking at my engine the other day, there are plugged ports on the cyllindar heads. These were a delete for the AIR system the california cars were equipped with. Could these hypothetically be utilized to make a direct injectiom system? Not that I would, just curious though.

[xgecko]

Hooboy. Direct Injection. This is a very modern design that is much more than just ports. Key is an injector that can survive the combustion and pressures developed in the cylinder and heads redesigned for the DI injectors. I am not totally sure which ports you mean, and I am assuming by Direct Injection you mean what we find on a modern Cadillac V6, for instance. The essence of DI is to inject the fuel after the Intake port has closed and the charge has been compressed; it really helps control detonation as well as improving some other aspects of combustion.

We can't really hope for DI on our venerable old big block Olds engines; it really needs to be a systemic approach for the most part. That said, Fuel Injection is a big step up from the carb and for us is all we can really aspire to. DI takes a massive engineering effort beyond anything we can really think of unless someone with the resources designs a new head for it.

Why do you need a distributor? The ability to map out spark advance across the RPM range along with the tighter timing makes distributorless ignition far superior to a distributor; is it the aforementioned viewpoint that keeps coming up the major driver for your comment? If so, that certainly is valid, but I would offer that you keep the distributor in place and do the DIS in parallel. In fact, by doing this, in the unlikely event the DIS fails you can easily get home by swapping back to the distributor. I'm just sayin'

BTW - I have greatly enjoyed our conversations and hope you feel the same way! I have been very careful to respond in ways that respect your opinions and position as being right for you even if I have a different viewpoint or opinion. We are in an area where personal preference and circumstances dictate what is right for each of us, the goal is to trade ideas and pick what suits each of us. I have no desire to come across as superior or any other foolishly arrogant approach and hope I have succeeded. The tone of your responses do imply I have...

[Twilight Fenrir]

Hooboy. Direct Injection. This is a very modern design that is much more than just ports. Key is an injector that can survive the combustion and pressures developed in the cylinder and heads redesigned for the DI injectors. I am not totally sure which ports you mean

These ports, it's hard to tell weather they go into the cylinder, or the exhaust flow... They were used only on california cars, but all of them had the plugs.

Why do you need a distributor? The ability to map out spark advance across the RPM range along with the tighter timing makes distributorless ignition far superior to a distributor; is it the aforementioned viewpoint that keeps coming up the major driver for your comment? If so, that certainly is valid, but I would offer that you keep the distributor in place and do the DIS in parallel. In fact, by doing this, in the unlikely event the DIS fails you can easily get home by swapping back to the distributor. I'm just sayin'

You really had me thinkin' about that for a few minutes there... I really like the idea of that, however, I don't like the idea of having any computers in my Toro. I had an '89 Toronado Trofeo. It had power EVERYTHING, and had the VIC touchscreen... it was really sweet, but the computers... ugh the computers X_x

Beyond that, I love machines. I love taking something appart, and figuring out how it works and why. That's one of the big reasons I love older cars, is they are just so interesting. Distributors are a largely mechanical system, and I would rather have a machine than an electronic. That's the same reason I won't go to fuel injection.

I've heard of old fuel injection systems that were mechanically driven instead of electronic. I would actually consider putting that in. Though I doubt it would be much better than a carburetor.

BTW - I have greatly enjoyed our conversations and hope you feel the same way!

Absolutely I love differences of opinion. Without them, all options won't be considered. I actually greatly enjoy a spirited argument as well, provided it's in good spirits.

I have been very careful to respond in ways that respect your opinions and position as being right for you even if I have a different viewpoint or opinion. We are in an area where personal preference and circumstances dictate what is right for each of us, the goal is to trade ideas and pick what suits each of us. I have no desire to come across as superior or any other foolishly arrogant approach and hope I have succeeded. The tone of your responses do imply I have...

Hehe, well, I appreciate the concerns, but you're just fine. I tend to be a smartass most of the time. And my mind works in it's own special way. If I come off as hostile, or like I've been treated hostily, I'm probably just joking around. Especially when I make absolute statements... Like all Fords suck

Found On Road Dead,
Fix Or Repair Daily

How do you double the value of a pinto?





Fill its gas tank. (more like triple in todays gas prices)

[Schurkey]

I.noticed when I was looking at my engine the other day, there are plugged ports on the cyllindar heads. These were a delete for the AIR system the california cars were equipped with. Could these hypothetically be utilized to make a direct injectiom system?

No. They would spray fuel into the exhaust stream, as they're more-or-less aimed at the back of the exhaust valve.

Useless for running an engine.