I'm thinking of doing the Disc conversion on my '66 a few ??

[pr129tbird]

My main concern (believe it or not) is the WHEELS! I have the cool original chrome rims on my car and like the Cord look they provide. My first question is: What is the EXACT difference between my drum type rim and a disc rim? And from What year or years can I get a 2 rims that would look like the originals and match my rears. I recall the newer toros and Eldos with discs and wheelcovers had some UGLY type of black steel rim with very large cut outs in them. Obviously those wouldn't work even if chrome plated. So what will? Next question is: I located spindles, calipers/rotors, and a master cylinder, booster and proportioning valve that is claimed to have come off of a 1969 Toronado. He said these are the single pistion calipers. As far as I know, the dual piston were ONLY used on 67 and 68 Toronados (with the optional disc brakes of course), is that correct? Next if it IS a 1969 Set up what type of rotors should they be? The type that slide OVER the hub would be my guess and not the Hub/Rotor assembly. Again is this correct? LAST... assuming that it IS a 1969 set up, from what I've read I shouldnt have ANY need to change my upper ball joints or upper control arms right? All parts should bolt right in. I want to do this with the LEAST amount of headaches and problems!!! From what I've read I think a complete 1969 disc set up would be the least problematic one to swap into a 1966, right? THANKS so much in advance.

[Twilight Fenrir]

I did this exact procedure this winter, and I used '69 partsm though everything but the spindles I bought new.

So, starting off with your first concern, you absolutely need new disc brake compatible wheels. They are somewhat hard to find, but there is a post in the parts for sale thread with an awesomwe price on a set:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=667

I paid 1200 flr mine. The other thing is you will need new beauty rings for them. From what I understand, these are incredibly rare to find in good shape. Imanaged to find a really nice set for $50 each. However, you can use your existing wheel centers. Once you have them on the car, you'd never know they were not stock.. I will post some pics when I get home.

As for the parts list, that sounds about right. It was all fairly straightforward. I complicated my swap by completely rebuilding my front suspension while I was at it, including replacing my wheel bearings. (that was a major pain) The '69 used seperate proportioning valves, and metering blocks, so if you are going to use orriginal parts, you'll need the ,etering block as well. I bought a modern one-piece combination valve to make plumbing easier.

The process is surprisingly straightforward, the only snag is the torsion bar, but if you are careful it can beworked around easily, since you are not doing the suspension as well. I bought all new parts from Rockauto.com, minus the steering knuckles. The rockauto parts ranme less tha $500. I would be hesitant to put 50-year[color=#FFFF0][/color] old calipers, rotors, and master cyls with unknown service history...

[pr129tbird]

THanks for the reply. I wonder why the 66 beauty rings cant be used? Something I think I read about there being 1/4" LESS space on the disc rims edge then drum style rim. As for the other parts... i was going to send the Master cylinder/booster out as a core. Same goes for the calipers, was going bring them to my local auto store as cores. Then bast the spindles/ calip brackets etc.. paint them and put it all together. At this point though it sounds like I can NOT do this whole swap for less then at the very least $1100-$1400 counting the rims, rebuilt brake parts, the used parts and rims. Sadly I might have to stick with the drums a little while longer. Maybe I should buy the spindles at least while I can and the other used parts.

[Twilight Fenrir]

THanks for the reply. I wonder why the 66 beauty rings cant be used? Something I think I read about there being 1/4" LESS space on the disc rims edge then drum style rim. As for the other parts... i was going to send the Master cylinder/booster out as a core. Same goes for the calipers, was going bring them to my local auto store as cores. Then bast the spindles/ calip brackets etc.. paint them and put it all together. At this point though it sounds like I can NOT do this whole swap for less then at the very least $1100-$1400 counting the rims, rebuilt brake parts, the used parts and rims. Sadly I might have to stick with the drums a little while longer. Maybe I should buy the spindles at least while I can and the other used parts.

I'd just buy the parts from rockauto.com, they cost less than the local parts shops, and there is no core charge iirc, so buying the old ones is pointless. I think if there is a core charge it is less than $20.... Not 100% sure on that though... But i'd look into it. The biggest thing is those dang expensive wheels...

The old rings definitely do not fit, there is not enoigh room. I'll post a pic of mine and it becomes obvious why new wheels and rims are necessary... There is less than 1/4 gap betweeen the correct wheels and the calliper.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Okay, so here's some pictures.... This is my Toro, with its factory wheels... They were not chrome, but that's the only difference between yours and mine:



And, here it is with the new, chrome wheels:



Without being really close, and knowing exactly what to look for, the two wheels are virtually indistinguishable from each other.

Here you can see my more-or-less completed assembly.... The upper ball joint isn't fully attatched in this picture, but it does have the original '66 Upper Control arm, and everything seems to clear fine, and indeed, the car drives great. I had an issue with the hoses between the steel and callipers when I bought '69 lines... I'm not 100% sure what happened... but the '66 drum brake hoses have the same fittings, are the correct length, and have the same brass clips for the mounting points, so I just picked up a new pair of '66 brake hoses.



Here you can see just how close to the wheel the calliper is...



And, lastly, here you can see how butchered I had to be with the plumbing... Having two seperate pieces per the original '69 setup would make it even more complicated. In the future, I will re-plumb everything, and take out all the couplings and such I had to add... but for now, this works great.



This is the proportioning combination valve I used:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/GM-Disc-D ... ,9878.html

Having wrestled with it at the time, I would try to find one with more common port sizes... IIRC, they had another one on their sight that were all the same size...

[Schurkey]

I am absolutely certain that the upper ball joint had a different taper from drum to single-piston disc steering knuckle. Installing mis-matched parts will either be difficult and dangerous due to not enough thread poking through the knuckle, OR damned dangerous due to increased stress on the ball joint stud due to incorrect taper and the stud wobbling around semi-loose in the knuckle. I don't know about the ball joint stud taper on the four-piston steering knuckle. PERHAPS that's the same as the drum brake knuckle.

Also, I'm thinking that some vehicles use an upper ball joint with three bolt attachment, and others have four-bolt attachment. The four-bolt attachment is newer. Am I remembering this correctly??? At any rate, if you use the correct ball joint for the knuckle with the right number of bolts for the control arm, the control arms are interchangeable.

I had to use a different upper ball joint when I put single-piston discs on the front of my '66 due to the different taper of the single-piston knuckle vs. the drum knuckle. I just bought one for the "donor vehicle" I got the knuckles from--a '72 in my case. I also installed new lower ball joints, but I think the part number was the same for all years. This was done years ago, my memory is somewhat fuzzy.

May I shamelessly suggest you add polyurethane control arm bushings while you have the whole mess apart? Simple, easy, no hydraulic press needed--although it'll take a propane torch and some sandpaper.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=116

Perfect time to remove, clean, and grease the torsion bar sockets and anchors as well.

[Chazzer]

Hey Schurkey,

I think the situation concerning ball joints and tapers on these cars is enough to drive most around the bend.

I believe the confusion on the 69 single piston calipers is compounded due to the fact that they had a midyear spindle change in 69.

I’m pretty certain that all first gen ball joints from 66-69 (early spindle are the same). After the spindle change you need the ball joint with the different taper. This ball joint was good until the ball joint change later in the mid 70’s.

To identify what 69 spindle you have to locate and confirm the casting number.

[Twilight Fenrir]

I’m pretty certain that all first gen ball joints from 66-69 (early spindle are the same). After the spindle change you need the ball joint with the different taper. This ball joint was good until the ball joint change later in the mid 70’s.

To identify what 69 spindle you have to locate and confirm the casting number.

exactly. Up through '69 they use the same balljoints. I got a rebuild kit from kanter for my balljoints, and it was for 66-69 with, or withought disc brakes.

[xgecko]

May I shamelessly suggest you add polyurethane control arm bushings while you have the whole mess apart? Simple, easy, no hydraulic press needed--although it'll take a propane torch and some sandpaper.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=116

While Shurkey may be a bit biased when it comes to his own product, I can most certainly say that he is giving you good advice when he suggests you upgrade to his bushing inserts. It was an easy install - IF YOU FOLLOW HIS DIRECTIONS! I missed a step and it was a tad more difficult but nothing I could not recover from.

The steering response is fantastic. The ride does not suffer from what I can tell, and there is no squeaking I can detect. I highly recommend his bushing inserts to anyone that is removing the control arms or just wants the best performance possible.

Edit: I should add that doing business with him is a pleasure. He fielded any and all of my questions promptly and knowledgeably. I would buy from him again in a heartbeat.

[Twilight Fenrir]

May I shamelessly suggest you add polyurethane control arm bushings while you have the whole mess apart? Simple, easy, no hydraulic press needed--although it'll take a propane torch and some sandpaper.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=116

While Shurkey may be a bit biased when it comes to his own product, I can most certainly say that he is giving you good advice when he suggests you upgrade to his bushing inserts. It was an easy install - IF YOU FOLLOW HIS DIRECTIONS! I missed a step and it was a tad more difficult but nothing I could not recover from.

The steering response is fantastic. The ride does not suffer from what I can tell, and there is no squeaking I can detect. I highly recommend his bushing inserts to anyone that is removing the control arms or just wants the best performance possible.

Edit: I should add that doing business with him is a pleasure. He fielded any and all of my questions promptly and knowledgeably. I would buy from him again in a heartbeat.

Yeah, I wish I had bought his bushings, putting the oem style in was the 2nd worst part of the whole project... Secind only to putting on the 4" wheel bearings these monsters have...