Carb or Intake Manifold Replacement options

[rebel102285]

Hello All! I have two 66's & am going to be using one as my daily driver

Are there any options out there for an aftermarket carb that will work? I really dont want this quadrajunk anymore (yes i am aware of sparkys but really dont want quadra)

Also I see that none of the aftermarket intakes will fit (except for the rockwell) & this seems to be due to hood clearances... If i were to use a lower profile air intake would i be able to make any of the edebrock manifolds & carb work?



Thanks in advance

Adam

[Twilight Fenrir]

Hello All! I have two 66's & am going to be using one as my daily driver

Are there any options out there for an aftermarket carb that will work? I really dont want this quadrajunk anymore (yes i am aware of sparkys but really dont want quadra)

Also I see that none of the aftermarket intakes will fit (except for the rockwell) & this seems to be due to hood clearances... If i were to use a lower profile air intake would i be able to make any of the edebrock manifolds & carb work?



Thanks in advance

Adam

Well, first I feel I have to say, a properly tuned quadrajet is pretty much the best carb you can put on a car. Yhey're more fuel efficient, can deliver more air, and are generally more reliable. Just harder to tune.

That being said, you should be able to use any carb on a stock manifold, the carburetor isn't special at all. As for the air-cleaner, if you look at the factory one, it is already increadibly low clearence. The carb actually recesses into the cleaner, you won't find a shorter one.

There arw a couple aftermarket intake manifolds, I know there are at least two that fit... Don't remember the other one atm...

[rebel102285]

Thanks for the advice! This is the car I just picked up http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140534046683&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
I am planning to do a restomod or pro touring if you will for this car. I would like to ultimately convert it to fuel injection & i may just leave the quadrajet on there for a month or two & use the holley commander throttle body fuel injection system. Ideally i would also like to modernize the interior with performance styled leather bucket seating & a center counsel. I am having the AM/FM radio "gutted" & converted with new internals to provide am/fm/sirius as well as anauxillary input. My stereo guy will be making kickpanel enclosures for speakers up front (not sure what ill do out back) as well as 4 10" subwoofers in the trunk. I will do the disc brake conversion & would like to upgrade to 18-19" wheels. As for performance mods I would like to put on the edelbrock heads with a crane fireball cam (i believe thats the correct one) possibly exahaust headers (if i can get them to fit) & the list goes on.

Adam

Hello All! I have two 66's & am going to be using one as my daily driver

Are there any options out there for an aftermarket carb that will work? I really dont want this quadrajunk anymore (yes i am aware of sparkys but really dont want quadra)

Also I see that none of the aftermarket intakes will fit (except for the rockwell) & this seems to be due to hood clearances... If i were to use a lower profile air intake would i be able to make any of the edebrock manifolds & carb work?



Thanks in advance

Adam

Well, first I feel I have to say, a properly tuned quadrajet is pretty much the best carb you can put on a car. Yhey're more fuel efficient, can deliver more air, and are generally more reliable. Just harder to tune.

That being said, you should be able to use any carb on a stock manifold, the carburetor isn't special at all. As for the air-cleaner, if you look at the factory one, it is already increadibly low clearence. The carb actually recesses into the cleaner, you won't find a shorter one.

There arw a couple aftermarket intake manifolds, I know there are at least two that fit... Don't remember the other one atm...

[xgecko]

Hi Adam,

Sounds like your goals are pretty similar to mine. I have to agree with Twilight in that the Q-Jet is one of the best carbs out there when properly tuned (and any carb must be properly tuned to work well). The small primaries give excellent gas mileage and the ginormous secondaries provide plenty of air for hard runs. The 68 I just bought has an Edelbrock and frankly I think it gets worse mileage. There really is no good reason not to use your Q-Jet; if nothing else do a basic rebuild on it and it will be fine unless the plate is warped (this is the benefit to a professional rebuild, they have the tools to check and fix plate warpage)

I actually bought a Summit Racing rebuilt Q-jet to hold me over til I can afford fuel injection next year. I bought the Aluminum Intake manifold that Gary Rockwell produces which has fuel injection bosses built into it and I am considering using the port injection design although I have yet to make up my mind.

I also have the Edelbrock heads and they do work with any stock intake. The Rockwell will work fine. I do note that the Edelbrock carb was installed on the stock iron manifold with a spacer and it just fits under the hood (I measured with some crushed aluminum foil and there was a little bit of clearance under the hood fuzz). If you choose to buy an Edelbrock it seems like it will fit fine on the stock manifold with a spacer, but in my opinion you are better off with Q-jet for now.

I think it pays to mention you have to be very careful with new wheels. You must respect the offset depth and other factors unique to our wheels; an excellent read can be found here:
http://www.breznick.com/toronado/wheels/index.htm

As for the disk brake conversion you may want to consider the Wilwood GM D52 Aluminum caliper which will replace the single piston stock caliper used from 69 to 78 in these cars. It is a two piston floating aluminum caliper that seems very nice; I will have installed my set soon and will be reporting back what my results are. There are several different models; you will want the 2" pistons and the 1.28" Rotor Thickness set in black or red:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-140-11290-R/

If you use a flat-tappet camshaft (you say Crane Fireball but that does not really tell us much and does not show as an actual Olds cam) then you need to be very careful when first starting the motor or you will flatten the cam lobe and dish the tappet. You need to use ~ 2800 ppm ZDDP (A Zinc-Phosphate Additive) in the oil and modern oils are only around 800-900 ppm so you either need an additive like Camshield or an oil that has the required level. Run the engine at between 2,000 and 3,000 rpm for 20-30 mins right after starting it for the first time, then drive for about 50 miles never keeping the rpms at the same level for very long. Change your oil and use oils with about 1,200 - 1,800 ppm ZDDP from then on. Rollers tappets do not need this break-in cycle.

Good luck with the headers...

[Twilight Fenrir]

Also, on the disc conversion, Kanter Auto products (http://www.kanter.com) has front-disc conversion packages for the 1st gen toro's brand new. Don't have to dig around in a salvage yard, and then it can still use the factory wheels.

It only has a single-piston calipur though, with 12" rotors. Comes with everything, master cyl, booster, proportioning valve, loaded calipurs etc. and it's $1099.00

It's not listed on their website, but it is in their physical catalogue.

A throttle-body fuel injection system? Is that considered an upgrade? I have TBI on my 4cyl Fiero, it's just a fly-by-wire carb, instead of mechanical linkages, isn't it? I honestly don't know.

[Sparky]

Adam,

I realize not everyone is a QJ fan, and I'm not trying to persuade you into using my services, but on a '66 Toro, you are pretty much limited to a QJ due to the hood clearance and the low rise intake. However, if you don't want to use the OEM air cleaner and don't mind punching out your hood, several carbs will work. I'd hate to see you go there though.

FYI, not only did the low rise Toro intake win a special SAE Award for design and flow, the lowly QJ (not) is STILL your best option when restored correctly. Other concerns to keep in mind that the OEM 66/67 Toro carbs have side loading fuel inlets and use a divorced stove coil for the choke, which can NOT be converted to hot air or electric, not to mention the unique 66/67 throttle control with even different geometries if you have cruise control.

Feel free to give me a call and I'll talk over options for you.

Sparky

[xgecko]

Twilight -

A TBI system is far more than just a 'fly-by-wire' carb. Fuel injection is in some ways inherently simpler as it is a computer that takes in some data and adjusts the fuel/air ratio directly using pulse width signals that hold the injector open according to how much fuel is needed. No choke, no idle circuits, no mechanical complexity to fall out of tune.

Even TBI system is a major improvement over a carb as you can tune the fuel/rpm map to provide optimum performance under all conditions.

A Port Fuel Injection system improves upon this by allowing finer tuning and, most importantly (and of little use to us! ) it allows tuned intake manifold runners to be optimized without fear of fuel drop out. It would be possible for us to use this but someone would have to design and manufacture a custom low-profile tuned port intake system. I am trying to decide which way to go as the Rockwell Aluminum Manifold has the bosses for the port injectors. That will be next year's project....

I have to also follow up on a comment made to me regarding the injectors in a TBI system reducing airflow; I am not sure how valid that claim really is.

The bottom line is that a fuel injection system, regardless of design, will significantly improve idle, driveability, performance and fuel economy even on our old monsters. I can't wait to get one going on my 69!