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Well, I'm considering insulating my garage and putting in a heater so I can tinker with my olds through the winter... And, if I do so, the big thing I want to get done is rebuild the engine. This would be the first engine I've ever rebuilt (but not the first one I've ever pulled anymore )

So, my questions are: How hard is it to pull the engine out of these? There doesn't seem to be a whole lot attatched to it.. A/C, some wires, Coolant lines, vacuum tubes... and, that's pretty much it. I have a floor-hoist, can I just unhook it and pull it right out without having to tear everything appart?


What should I do with it when I actually start rebuilding it? I mean, the engine has been in there for 44 years, and it still runs. So it's obviously dependable, and I'd like to keep it that way. I know I need to get the cylinder's honed, and put some hardened valves in it. But beyond that, what can I do? I'd like to make it have a bit more power if at all possible, but I don't want to bore it out, I want it to stay a 425. So basically, my question is: What can I do to make it more powerfull without sacrificing its dependibility, or changing its displacement? I also want to make it pretty under the hood

Oh, and, I'm not looking to blow $10,000 on an engine rebuild I'm planning to do the work I can by myself. So I guess I should add, what can I do to get the most power, for the least amount of money.

The engines in these first gen cars are fairly easy to remove. There are a few more things attached than you are seeing. The final drive parts bolt to the bottom of the engine and, of course, the transmission bolts to the rear of the engine. I've pulled several of these things and the hood is the only part of the body that had to come off. Just take it slow and take pictures so you can put it back together!

There are several things you can do to improve the engine without sacrificing reliability... definitely hone the cylinder walls (unless your shop recommends a bore/hone), have your crank polished (or turned if necessary), install a double-roller timing chain, maybe roller-tip rockers, a spicier cam might be nice, etc, etc... I'm in this process right now and boy is it fun! If you have any specific questions during the process, post away! And keep us updated on your progress!

What about these rebuild kits? Are there any good complete kits for a 425 that boosts performance? I dont really know much about specific components, much less how they all interact with eachother. Picking out individual components could be problematic for me, as I wouldnt really know what im looking for. I can do the work, choosing from a bazillion differemt parts not so much...

I first have to ask.....why do you think the engine needs a rebuild? How many miles are on it?

Also, stay away from gimicky performance mods and cams. That 425 when running/tuned right etc etc, is PLENTY enough of a screamer! Electronic ignition and MAYBE C-heads are all you need for upgrades. Most of the other stuff you may want to do as a matter of reconditioning can be done without even taking the engine out.

Sparks

Sparky wrote:I first have to ask.....why do you think the engine needs a rebuild? How many miles are on it?

Also, stay away from gimicky performance mods and cams. That 425 when running/tuned right etc etc, is PLENTY enough of a screamer! Electronic ignition and MAYBE C-heads are all you need for upgrades. Most of the other stuff you may want to do as a matter of reconditioning can be done without even taking the engine out.

Sparks

Well, I just bought the car. And I know it has been sitting since 1990, though I don't know much about it's life before that. The odometer says 35K, and I doubt very highly that that is original miles, I'm not that lucky So it's probably 135k, though it's possible it's 235k as well, seeing as how the car has been around a while. However, I doubt that to be the case, judging by the condition of the rest of the car. 135K is most likely.

Mostly, it's performance is definitely not where it should be... It's slower than my El Camino with a paultry 305. May just be the carburetor on that one, but it's burning coolant too... Not at an alarming rate, but it's still an issue. It takes about 2 minutes of turning the key and pumping the gas-pedal to get it started, which, again, could be the carburetor... I'd also like to get some hardened valves in it so that I don't have to add lead substitute every time I fill 'er up. And, if I'm going to be tearing the heads off, I figured I might as well go all the way. Oh, also, one of my lifters is clicking pretty good.

Beyond that, the engine has been sitting in the car for 44 years now, largely un-touched by the looks of things. So, it seemed logical to me that it would be in need of a rebuild. I'd like to get it running well over the winter, so I can daily-drive it all next summer and enjoy it before stripping the car almost completely to the bones and re-building everything.

I haven't been here long, but I know enough to place a great amount of weight on your opinion Sparky.

I'm going to stick with the distributor system. Might put a more modern one in, but I don't want to go to electronic. I know there's alot of junk out there for "performance" parts... which, is why I asked I fear I would scarcely know the difference. I understand the basic mechanical systems involved in making an engine run, but I have little to no understanding for the math involved in it. This would be my first rebuild, and I plan to follow it with my 2.5L from my Fiero during the summer I drive my Toro. At least, that's what I had in mind.

Way too much to reply to that I can address in a post. Give me a call and I'll be glad to help you out.

Sparky
414-447-7500 (anytime) Leave message if I'm out

Twilight Fenrir wrote:
Mostly, it's performance is definitely not where it should be... It's slower than my El Camino with a paultry 305.

Do the secondary throttle blades open? Common for Q-jet carbs to have the secondaries stick shut.

Twilight Fenrir wrote: I'd also like to get some hardened valves in it so that I don't have to add lead substitute every time I fill 'er up.

It's more a matter of hardened exhaust seats than hardened valves.

Twilight Fenrir wrote:Beyond that, the engine has been sitting in the car for 44 years now, largely un-touched by the looks of things. So, it seemed logical to me that it would be in need of a rebuild.

What's your budget? The most recent non-Chevy rebuild I did was a 455 Pontiac; and that ran $4K with me doing all the assembly. That included bore, torque-plate hone, balance, roller-tip rocker arms, aluminum water pump, rebuild heads with new exhaust valves and hardened seats. Also needed three sleeves which hopefully you won't need.

Twilight Fenrir wrote:I'm going to stick with the distributor system. Might put a more modern one in, but I don't want to go to electronic.

If you don't go electronic, there is no such thing as "more modern". I don't know why on earth you would want to retain the points-style ignition; but if you do, at least assure that the distributor isn't worn-out; and that the centrifugal and vacuum advance is tuned to match YOUR vehicle's particular needs.

Schurkey wrote:

Twilight Fenrir wrote:
Mostly, it's performance is definitely not where it should be... It's slower than my El Camino with a paultry 305.

Do the secondary throttle blades open? Common for Q-jet carbs to have the secondaries stick shut.

Twilight Fenrir wrote: I'd also like to get some hardened valves in it so that I don't have to add lead substitute every time I fill 'er up.

It's more a matter of hardened exhaust seats than hardened valves.

Twilight Fenrir wrote:Beyond that, the engine has been sitting in the car for 44 years now, largely un-touched by the looks of things. So, it seemed logical to me that it would be in need of a rebuild.

What's your budget? The most recent non-Chevy rebuild I did was a 455 Pontiac; and that ran $4K with me doing all the assembly. That included bore, torque-plate hone, balance, roller-tip rocker arms, aluminum water pump, rebuild heads with new exhaust valves and hardened seats. Also needed three sleeves which hopefully you won't need.

Twilight Fenrir wrote:I'm going to stick with the distributor system. Might put a more modern one in, but I don't want to go to electronic.

If you don't go electronic, there is no such thing as "more modern". I don't know why on earth you would want to retain the points-style ignition; but if you do, at least assure that the distributor isn't worn-out; and that the centrifugal and vacuum advance is tuned to match YOUR vehicle's particular needs.

Well, my budget kinda went down the hole for the time being, looks like I'm going to have to put off a proper rebuild for a few months, if not a year or so... but I'd still like to rebuild the heads over the winter so I can drive it without unleaded gas. I'll check the secondaries, sounds like it might be reasonable.

HEI distributors don't have points, that's what I was referring to. It's a step up from the old one, though I know it wouldn't be as good as electronic.