l Bearings

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Otto Skorzeny
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Re: l Bearings

Postby Otto Skorzeny » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:02 am

Another observation

Using a seal (#9) to keep the outer races in place and just hoping the inner race is in position seems a dumb design.

The axle nut sould be pressing the 2 inner races together to set the pre-load.

That said, how hard is it to get to the center spacer? Could a selective washer be used there to adjust the outer races?

Not that I gave a clue where you'd find the right diameter thickness washers.

GrantRees
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Re: l Bearings

Postby GrantRees » Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:44 am

Ottto:

Thank you. You and you buddy are a veritable font in information. This is all making some sense to me.

I did have to press the bearings on on off the HUB so it's good to know that's a positive sign.

I'm getting what's being said about the height of the bearing and seal "stack" being crucial for proper fitment. I do have the original CV's, which are likely original or close to it since the pass. side one has the "damper" on the shaft. I'm not clear right now whether I kept the seals that I pulled out when I did the CV's the first time. I've not yet torn into this but my recall is that the outer seal #9 was pretty substantial in terms of the thickness of the metal outer part although I do tend to do things like that. If I kept those I will measure the height of the original against the new. I'm also going to have a close look at the original CV's as compared to the replacements. I can't recall if the replacements were termed new or re-manufactured. Maybe I can find the receipt. I do have one of the boxes from the replacement cv - it's from Cardone. Made in China. no surprise there. If I can figure it out I'll attach a photo of the label on the CV box. FWIW it says "new" on the box.

So over the next week hopefully I'll be able to break down at least one of the front wheel assemblies and start doing some inspecting and measuring. I haven't decided which side is easier to break down. there's more to do on pass side but I've gotta take the knuckle off on the driver side. I guess it don't matter since I'm going to have to do both.

I'm gathering that I want to look at the dimensions of the cv in terms of the diameter and the length of the machined surfaces where it snugs up on the bearing / seal. If these measurement are off, either too narrow or too long, I'm understanding that bearings won't snug up b/c the bearing and seal stack will be "shorter" than needed for the new CV's. If the seal size is off I'll try and run down a correct sized #9 seal. If the CV measurements are off on the new cv's I'll sie if I can find a local shop to refurbish / rebuild the cv's that came out. Should that be necessary, I assume but am open to correction, that I can have any such shop use the stub shaft part of the old cv and remainder from the new, at least on the passenger side in order to get rid of the damper - after 52 years, I don't have faith in that component.

Last, I guess if the measurements all come out right, I could look into finding a way to shim the stack for a better fit. Let's hope it does not come to that.

If that's not broadly correct in terms of what I looking for please set me straight.

I very much appreciate the thoughts and suggestions provided by my fellow Toro owners.

Thank you Gentlemen. I'll post up what I find and how I'm doing solving the issue.

Grant
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Otto Skorzeny
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Re: l Bearings

Postby Otto Skorzeny » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:45 pm

If I were you, I'd also contact Jim at Applied GMC.

He restores GMC motor homes which utilize the entire Toronado drivetrain. He rebuilds CVs and sells them, too, I think. In any event, he is happy to help. I spoke to him on the phone some years ago and he's very knowledgable.

https://www.gmcrvparts.com/

Rebuilt CV axle $279

https://www.gmcrvparts.com/product-p/gm1-1.003.1.htm

Schurkey
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Re: l Bearings

Postby Schurkey » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:37 pm

GrantRees wrote: he couldn't pass it for inspection because there was too much play in the front wheels.

GrantRees wrote: In all candor there was way too much play in the fronts.

GrantRees wrote: If you yank back and forth on the front wheels, both, there's just a hint of play - it ain't much but you can feel it and hear it.

HOW MUCH "play"? The service manual may have specifications for the amount, as well as the proper measurement technique. It's not impossible that your "play" is totally normal--within spec.

GrantRees wrote: I put the impact wrench to the axel nuts and tightened them down some more. the wheel play did diminish but it's still there.

Within reason, overtorquing the axle nut doesn't change the bearing clearance, which is built-into the spacer shim.

GrantRees wrote: I'm given to understand the the front bearing are a set and that you should not mix and match the component parts when replacing (which I didn't do).

Exactly right.

The two bearings--purchased separately--are dirt-cheap. The magic happens when they take two dirt-cheap bearing assemblies, stuff 'em into a measuring fixture, and then package them together with a select-thickness spacer shim. The spacer shim determines bearing clearance.

GrantRees wrote: Any thoughts or suggestions on why I'm can't get rid of the front wheel play. It's really not much, but it's there there's no denying. It's sitting on the lift now and I've thoroughly cleaned my shop while looking at it because I'm at a loss as to what to look at next in hopes of fixing this.

I think you're chasing a ghost. At least, there's the possibility that there's nothing wrong. There WILL be some bearing clearance; that's the whole point of the select-fit shim between the two bearings. Making the shim thinner would reduce the play, potentially preloading the bearing rollers (not good!). Making the shim thicker creates a bigger gap between the rolling elements and the outer races of the two bearings. The trick is to get the RIGHT amount of clearance, and that's the job of that select-fit spacer.

GrantRees
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Re: l Bearings

Postby GrantRees » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:39 am

Hi Schurkey

I think you're right about chasing ghosts. I had a chat about the "issue" with another mechanic / inspection station guy I know. He seemed of the belief that, esp. on older cars, the wheel bearing are better off being a skosh on the loose side rather than too tight. He wasn't totally familiar with the Toro setup but did get that there's no adjustment on the wheel nut for the bearings. No pre load, i believe it's called. It's either right on it's not. Anyway, I'm done sweating over this problem. This guy says he'll have a look at it with an open mind and I'll be taking it down when the weather and roads clear up here in sunny VT.

I thank everyone for their thoughts and ideas.

GRant

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Otto Skorzeny
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Re: l Bearings

Postby Otto Skorzeny » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:47 am

GrantRees wrote:
... I'll be taking it down when the weather and roads clear up here in sunny VT.

GRant


So that'll be in sometime in August?


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