69 Toronado Stalled

Post your technical questions and information here.
NicolasB
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:27 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: 1969 Oldsmobile Toronado

69 Toronado Stalled

Postby NicolasB » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:37 pm

I recently bought a 1969 Toronado a couple of weeks ago and was running perfectly fine. When I first drove it, it was from the owner’s house in San Diego back to Los Angeles. Except for the lack of brakes (the guy who sold it didn’t tell us the master cylinder was bad :roll:), it was a dream. But only yesterday when I took it out to go from LA to Big Bear it started acting weird. At the top of the mountain, I went into a neighborhood that had a steep incline and that was when it stalled. I tried to turn it back on, but it didn’t budge, so I had to get it towed. The car (and I) are still near Big Bear, but I don’t know why this happened. Could it be the altitude? I just need some tips or advice on how to get it running again. Thanks!

User avatar
Otto Skorzeny
Posts: 1721
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:41 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: 1966 Toronado

Re: 69 Toronado Stalled

Postby Otto Skorzeny » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:22 am

It very well could be the altitude but I would expect it to run rough or gradually work itself up to a stall. what's the difference in elevation from where you started to where you are?

Who knows how much it';s been driven or what the state of all the ignition components are/were when you bought it.

I would start with the basics. Make sure it isn't out of gas. Is it fresh premium gas? Is it crap gas that's been sitting in the tank for months or more deteriorating?

Has the fuel pump been replaced in the last 10 years or so since the introduction of ethanol? Ethanol ruinied the diaphragm in my '56 Cadillac's original pump in just 2 months after Atlanta was mandated to have ethanol added to the fuel.

Have you checked the carb? when you manually work the throttle with the engine off, does the accelerator pump squirt fuel into the carb? You should be able to see the squirt and hear it.

How about the points, plugs, wires, cap, rotor? Have those all been checked or replaced recently?

What was the temp gauge showing? Could it have overheated? Vapor lock maybe?

When you say it wouldn't budge, do you mean the engine wouldn't turn over at all or that it turns over but won't fire?

Did you pull one of the plug wires to see if the plugs are getting spark? What about the dizzy wire? Is it getting spark?

Start at the plugs and work your way back if there's no spark at the plugs.

User avatar
Otto Skorzeny
Posts: 1721
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:41 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: 1966 Toronado

Re: 69 Toronado Stalled

Postby Otto Skorzeny » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:31 am

Make sure the car isn't out of gas. Going up a steep hill makes me wonder if it is low or near empty. Don't trust the gauge.

The manual says it holds 23 gallons but it really only holds 20 (at least that's true on the '66)

Tuco
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:39 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: 1966 Toronado
1951 Cadillac
1957 Pontiac
1965 Impala

Re: 69 Toronado Stalled

Postby Tuco » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:52 am

In order to help, you need to provide more information. “ I tried to turn it back on, but it didn’t budge” doesn’t tell us what it’s doing.

Otto has pretty much covered all the bases. It could be altitude but doubtful. Does it not turn over? Does it turn over but not start?

If it turns over but won’t start it has to be spark (electrical) or fuel. Cars that were made before computers are pretty simple to diagnose with a few simple tests.

NicolasB
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:27 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: 1969 Oldsmobile Toronado

Re: 69 Toronado Stalled

Postby NicolasB » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:26 am

Yeah sorry, the "budge" part didn't say much. The car cranks and starts (with starter fluid), but immediately after it shuts off. The main issue is that it does not idle anymore.

In terms of the altitude, it was 1,309 ft at the bottom of the mountain. Now that I am around Big Bear, the elevation is about 6,109 ft.

I checked the electricals to see if anything got damaged, but the alternator seems fine, I charged the battery at Autozone a day prior to the trip, and recently changed the original ignition coil yesterday with a high performance one. I did the spark plug trick, and I did see (and feel) a shock from the plug to the wire. So everything that deals with electricity seems fine.

For gasoline, the previous owner filled the car before I went there to see it, but with regular. I drove it from San Diego to LA without stopping and the engine had no problems. I did, however, fill the tank with premium before I left to Big Bear, but there is still some regular fuel in it so I don't think the mixture of premium and regular can affect much of the car. When the car stalled, I went to the local gas station (76) and filled my gas can with premium. I put more in the tank (it seemed full, but also because it was at an angle), but the car still didn't want to stay on.

Yes, what I am about to mention was a bad idea, but I drove the car without a cap for the coolant reservoir. I went to every Autozone nearby to find a cap for it, but found no luck. When I checked the car the night of the incident, coolant spilled on parts of the engine and the radiator was low on it. I slightly opened the radiator cap and I heard some bubbling. Earlier, the temperature gauge showed "hot," so I let it cool down for some time before continuing the trip. At night, the weather was cool so the engine wasn't getting as hot as it was during the day (around 90 degrees). I did get a temporary cap from my 68 Thunderbird reservoir yesterday, but I'm not sure if the coolant damaged anything. Like I said, the electricals seemed fine and I attempted a bypass from the battery (positive) to the ignition coil (positive) to see if anything within them was damaged.

I was thinking that maybe the gas line or the fuel filter is clogged, because the car seemed to have been sitting for a while at the owner's house. Maybe on the incline the gas didn't reach the line so it collected some dirt instead. I'll have to check later today, but I am not too sure on it.

Tuco
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:39 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: 1966 Toronado
1951 Cadillac
1957 Pontiac
1965 Impala

Re: 69 Toronado Stalled

Postby Tuco » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:14 am

If it will start on ether then it’s not electrical. It has to be a fuel issue. With the air filter off work the throttle and look down the carb. See if there is a squirt of fuel. If not, pull the fuel line off the carb and put the end into a coffee can. Have someone turn the engine over and observe the fuel flow from the line. You should get some good spurts into the can as it turns over. If not then it’s either the fuel pump or the filter.

Could possibly be the pickup in the tank, but I’d check the others first.

NicolasB
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:27 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: 1969 Oldsmobile Toronado

Re: 69 Toronado Stalled

Postby NicolasB » Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:12 pm

Tuco wrote:If it will start on ether then it’s not electrical. It has to be a fuel issue. With the air filter off work the throttle and look down the carb. See if there is a squirt of fuel. If not, pull the fuel line off the carb and put the end into a coffee can. Have someone turn the engine over and observe the fuel flow from the line. You should get some good spurts into the can as it turns over. If not then it’s either the fuel pump or the filter.

Could possibly be the pickup in the tank, but I’d check the others first.


I checked the fuel filter, and it looks fine. I replaced it just in case. When I cranked the motor, no fuel came out of the line. All I heard was pressurized air from somewhere (wasn’t the line, no pressure came out of it).

Tuco
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:39 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: 1966 Toronado
1951 Cadillac
1957 Pontiac
1965 Impala

Re: 69 Toronado Stalled

Postby Tuco » Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:26 pm

Most likely your fuel pump is bad. Like Otto said, this new gas eats rubber seals. (Thank you Government!).

Try a new fuel pump. Probably have you back on the road.

NicolasB
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:27 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: 1969 Oldsmobile Toronado

Re: 69 Toronado Stalled

Postby NicolasB » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:15 pm

I just ordered a new fuel pump at Napa, so hopefully this solves the issue. I’ll give an update once it’s installed and tested. Fingers crossed!

NicolasB
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:27 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: 1969 Oldsmobile Toronado

Re: 69 Toronado Stalled

Postby NicolasB » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:08 pm

Otto Skorzeny wrote:It very well could be the altitude but I would expect it to run rough or gradually work itself up to a stall. what's the difference in elevation from where you started to where you are?

Who knows how much it';s been driven or what the state of all the ignition components are/were when you bought it.

I would start with the basics. Make sure it isn't out of gas. Is it fresh premium gas? Is it crap gas that's been sitting in the tank for months or more deteriorating?

Has the fuel pump been replaced in the last 10 years or so since the introduction of ethanol? Ethanol ruinied the diaphragm in my '56 Cadillac's original pump in just 2 months after Atlanta was mandated to have ethanol added to the fuel.

Have you checked the carb? when you manually work the throttle with the engine off, does the accelerator pump squirt fuel into the carb? You should be able to see the squirt and hear it.

How about the points, plugs, wires, cap, rotor? Have those all been checked or replaced recently?

What was the temp gauge showing? Could it have overheated? Vapor lock maybe?

When you say it wouldn't budge, do you mean the engine wouldn't turn over at all or that it turns over but won't fire?

Did you pull one of the plug wires to see if the plugs are getting spark? What about the dizzy wire? Is it getting spark?

Start at the plugs and work your way back if there's no spark at the plugs.


In terms of vapor lock, how can I detect it? There’s a small hole on top of the fuel filler and it goes up to the pump. Maybe this part prevents it from happening? I’m not too sure.

I think I mentioned it earlier, but the temp gauge did show “hot” for a few seconds when it was on (at the bottom of the hill, where it was 90 degrees), but would eventually turn off.

To be sure there isn’t anything clogging up the lines, I used a bike pump and put air in them. Both lines that go to the tank made the tank gurgle, so it seems good. I did this with and without the gas cap to see if it made any difference. In addition, I did it from the fuel filler to see if the tank can be pressurized and send some fuel to the end of the lines. Don’t know if this trick does anything (or if I wasted my time on it) cause no fuel came out.


Return to “Technical Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests