79-85 E-body ELC (Level control)

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sosuzguy
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:23 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: Jayson Pruitt ROA#3412
Riviera Owners Association
Technical Advisor 79-85
Oil & Gas Minerals/Royalties www.royaltyminerals.com
www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy
1983 Riviera "Cole"
1983 Riviera XX "Peter" 1 of 502
1984 Riviera T-Type "Tina"
1985 Riviera "Gray"
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

79-85 E-body ELC (Level control)

Postby sosuzguy » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:12 am

Hello TOA group.

I’m a Buick Riviera car fan who owns 4 of these cars from 1979-1985. The Eldorado and Toronados were very similar for those years. I am trying to fix my Electronic Leveling Control system. I have the underhood air compressors that work but the exhaust solenoids are leaking. I can not find these new. No one offers aftermarket replacements that come close. I have found one place that will rebuild them but they are not sure if they will be able to get all the parts but they do rebuild a lot of other model years surrounding mine. http://www.suncoreindustries.com/

I’m writing to try and find out if maybe anyone has any ideas, thoughts or might know of a source to get these repaired. I have already checked salvage and most all of them leak somewhere on the compressor. No other GM application really works on these because the E-body car required 15-20 psi minimum air in the rear shocks at all times while all other GM models with ELC used 8-14 psi. I would even rebuild these for a small fee as needed at my home if I could get the parts I needed. Please feel free to share this information with anyone else you think might be able to help out with this.
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/alb ... 2584qogxoX

Thank you for your time and I look forward to working this out to find a solution for our 1979-1985 E-body cars.

-Jayson Pruitt #3412
Riviera Owners Association
http://www.rivowners.org
79-85 Technical Advisor
http://www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy
Oil & Gas Minerals http://www.RoyaltyMinerals.com
Accommodating, yes. Luxurious, yes. Riviera? Absolutely!
Jayson Pruitt ROA#3412
Riviera Owners Association - Technical Advisor 79-85
Toronado Nut too!
Oil & Gas Minerals/Royalties www.royaltyminerals.com
www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy

torolist001
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:43 am
TOA Membership Number: 0

Re: 79-85 E-body ELC (Level control)

Postby torolist001 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:15 pm

sosuzguy wrote:Hello TOA group.

I’m a Buick Riviera car fan who owns 4 of these cars from 1979-1985. The Eldorado and Toronados were very similar for those years. I am trying to fix my Electronic Leveling Control system. I have the underhood air compressors that work but the exhaust solenoids are leaking. I can not find these new. No one offers aftermarket replacements that come close. I have found one place that will rebuild them but they are not sure if they will be able to get all the parts but they do rebuild a lot of other model years surrounding mine. http://www.suncoreindustries.com/

I’m writing to try and find out if maybe anyone has any ideas, thoughts or might know of a source to get these repaired. I have already checked salvage and most all of them leak somewhere on the compressor. No other GM application really works on these because the E-body car required 15-20 psi minimum air in the rear shocks at all times while all other GM models with ELC used 8-14 psi. I would even rebuild these for a small fee as needed at my home if I could get the parts I needed. Please feel free to share this information with anyone else you think might be able to help out with this.
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/alb ... 2584qogxoX



I have had good success with a '95 Riv taking the compressor apart, cleaning it out and putting it together again. The problems were caused by corrosion that blocked the ports. Don't know if you can do the same with the earlier models, but they look pretty similar. It was not difficult, just careful work.

torolist001
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:43 am
TOA Membership Number: 0

Re: 79-85 E-body ELC (Level control)

Postby torolist001 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:32 am

sosuzguy wrote:Hello TOA group.

I’m a Buick Riviera car fan who owns 4 of these cars from 1979-1985. The Eldorado and Toronados were very similar for those years. I am trying to fix my Electronic Leveling Control system. I have the underhood air compressors that work but the exhaust solenoids are leaking. I can not find these new. No one offers aftermarket replacements that come close. I have found one place that will rebuild them but they are not sure if they will be able to get all the parts but they do rebuild a lot of other model years surrounding mine. http://www.suncoreindustries.com/




Jayson

I've been thinking a bit more about the compressors and these notes come to mind:

1/ The higher pressure relates to the minimum (or residual) pressure in the system. Right?
If so, does it matter much, all you need is for the levelling system to achieve the right height, which it will do anyway? Might be worth a try to find out.

2/ Isn't the residual pressure controlled by a spring inside the unit? Can't you simply use the right characteristic spring? The rest is the same?

These thoughts come without any warranty express or implied!

HTHs

Jonathan

sosuzguy
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:23 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: Jayson Pruitt ROA#3412
Riviera Owners Association
Technical Advisor 79-85
Oil & Gas Minerals/Royalties www.royaltyminerals.com
www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy
1983 Riviera "Cole"
1983 Riviera XX "Peter" 1 of 502
1984 Riviera T-Type "Tina"
1985 Riviera "Gray"
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Re: 79-85 E-body ELC (Level control)

Postby sosuzguy » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:52 pm

Jonathan-

The minimum pressure (15-20psi) is what the service manual says is required at all times for "improved ride characteristics" There is an excellent article on Hemmings Classic Cars that describes and details the who what where when and why for the rear suspension of the E-body cars from 1979-1985. http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/200 ... ure17.html The best I can figure from reading this article and the service manual is that the minimum air basically holds the coil springs up to a height that gives the best ride while keeping the rear toe & camber no matter the load. Ever see these cars from behind where it looks like they rear wheels are squatting out ?

I've taken the air dryer apart once on a spare non functioning unit. Yes there is a spring but at the end of the spring is a rubber flap sort of like a check valve that covers small pin sized holes. I believe the spring acts as a sort of buffer for the pressure while the round rubber flap over the smaller holes is what maintains the minimum air.

This is the BEST information I can get or read about. BTW I never got an email notification that you'd replied, reason it took me so long to respond.
Jayson Pruitt ROA#3412
Riviera Owners Association - Technical Advisor 79-85
Toronado Nut too!
Oil & Gas Minerals/Royalties www.royaltyminerals.com
www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy

sosuzguy
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:23 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: Jayson Pruitt ROA#3412
Riviera Owners Association
Technical Advisor 79-85
Oil & Gas Minerals/Royalties www.royaltyminerals.com
www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy
1983 Riviera "Cole"
1983 Riviera XX "Peter" 1 of 502
1984 Riviera T-Type "Tina"
1985 Riviera "Gray"
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Re: 79-85 E-body ELC (Level control)

Postby sosuzguy » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:55 pm

torolist001 wrote:
sosuzguy wrote:Hello TOA group.

I’m a Buick Riviera car fan who owns 4 of these cars from 1979-1985. The Eldorado and Toronados were very similar for those years. I am trying to fix my Electronic Leveling Control system. I have the underhood air compressors that work but the exhaust solenoids are leaking. I can not find these new. No one offers aftermarket replacements that come close. I have found one place that will rebuild them but they are not sure if they will be able to get all the parts but they do rebuild a lot of other model years surrounding mine. http://www.suncoreindustries.com/

I’m writing to try and find out if maybe anyone has any ideas, thoughts or might know of a source to get these repaired. I have already checked salvage and most all of them leak somewhere on the compressor. No other GM application really works on these because the E-body car required 15-20 psi minimum air in the rear shocks at all times while all other GM models with ELC used 8-14 psi. I would even rebuild these for a small fee as needed at my home if I could get the parts I needed. Please feel free to share this information with anyone else you think might be able to help out with this.
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/alb ... 2584qogxoX



I have had good success with a '95 Riv taking the compressor apart, cleaning it out and putting it together again. The problems were caused by corrosion that blocked the ports. Don't know if you can do the same with the earlier models, but they look pretty similar. It was not difficult, just careful work.



Thanks I'm going to find another non functioning unit and completely disassemble it to see what can and can't be replaced and photograph/document these more than I did before...
Jayson Pruitt ROA#3412
Riviera Owners Association - Technical Advisor 79-85
Toronado Nut too!
Oil & Gas Minerals/Royalties www.royaltyminerals.com
www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy

torolist001
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:43 am
TOA Membership Number: 0

Re: 79-85 E-body ELC (Level control)

Postby torolist001 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:13 am

sosuzguy wrote:Jonathan-

The minimum pressure (15-20psi) is what the service manual says is required at all times for "improved ride characteristics"


Yes, I understand that. However, the system is also supposed to maintain the correct ride height. If in doing that it requires more pressure than 15-20 psi, then it doesn't really matter too much, it seems to me. What you want is for the height sensor to require enough pressure to keep the back from squatting down, so maybe you can achieve the same effect by careful adjustment of the height sensor?

You could possibly experiment with installing a manual system and trying different pressures?

How about this? Put a heavy weight in the trunk. That way the system will have to put the pressure up a bit to counteract the weight. Just think, most problems have weird alternatives!

The rear toe & camber are kept correct as a by-product of maintaining a constant ride height, these cars shouldn't squat as to do so either they are grossly overloaded or the rear self levelling suspension system has failed.

Jonathan

sosuzguy
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:23 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: Jayson Pruitt ROA#3412
Riviera Owners Association
Technical Advisor 79-85
Oil & Gas Minerals/Royalties www.royaltyminerals.com
www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy
1983 Riviera "Cole"
1983 Riviera XX "Peter" 1 of 502
1984 Riviera T-Type "Tina"
1985 Riviera "Gray"
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Re: 79-85 E-body ELC (Level control)

Postby sosuzguy » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:36 pm

Regardless if the compressor keeps leaking down all of the pressure it's not going to be at the correct ride height. If you adjust the height sensor up to over compensate then the trim height is too high. If you think I'm not understanding what your saying please send me an email jhp@airmail.net Thanks for your reply.
Jayson Pruitt ROA#3412
Riviera Owners Association - Technical Advisor 79-85
Toronado Nut too!
Oil & Gas Minerals/Royalties www.royaltyminerals.com
www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy

torolist001
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:43 am
TOA Membership Number: 0

Re: 79-85 E-body ELC (Level control)

Postby torolist001 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:34 am

sosuzguy wrote:Regardless if the compressor keeps leaking down all of the pressure it's not going to be at the correct ride height. If you adjust the height sensor up to over compensate then the trim height is too high. If you think I'm not understanding what your saying please send me an email jhp@airmail.net Thanks for your reply.


If the compressor is leaking down it is faulty.

What I am saying is the #1 requirement is for the ride to be at the correct ride height whatever pressure is required to achieve it . If that pressure is 10 psi, then 10 psi is what the struts need, or else the rear will ride too high. If that pressure is 25 psi, then 25 psi is what you need. The min pressure is all very well, but if it causes the rear to ride too high then it is too much. That is why I am saying let the ride height sensor choose the pressure you need and see how your car handles. I understand the discussion about minimum pressures, but that should be a by-product of the levelling system?

Be aware that you do need some pressure in the struts or the mechanism gets jammed internally. It is a bag or sack and sort of creases up and wedges the movement with too little air in it.

sosuzguy
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:23 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: Jayson Pruitt ROA#3412
Riviera Owners Association
Technical Advisor 79-85
Oil & Gas Minerals/Royalties www.royaltyminerals.com
www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy
1983 Riviera "Cole"
1983 Riviera XX "Peter" 1 of 502
1984 Riviera T-Type "Tina"
1985 Riviera "Gray"
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Re: 79-85 E-body ELC (Level control)

Postby sosuzguy » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:43 pm

Thanks and I'll let you know once I get one of these compressors torn apart. I believe it's nothing more than a buch of o rings that need to be replaced to get it holding air again.
Jayson Pruitt ROA#3412
Riviera Owners Association - Technical Advisor 79-85
Toronado Nut too!
Oil & Gas Minerals/Royalties www.royaltyminerals.com
www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy

sosuzguy
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:23 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: Jayson Pruitt ROA#3412
Riviera Owners Association
Technical Advisor 79-85
Oil & Gas Minerals/Royalties www.royaltyminerals.com
www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy
1983 Riviera "Cole"
1983 Riviera XX "Peter" 1 of 502
1984 Riviera T-Type "Tina"
1985 Riviera "Gray"
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Re: 79-85 E-body ELC (Level control)

Postby sosuzguy » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:02 am

Johnathan can you email me directly? jhp at airmail. Net thanks
Jayson Pruitt ROA#3412
Riviera Owners Association - Technical Advisor 79-85
Toronado Nut too!
Oil & Gas Minerals/Royalties www.royaltyminerals.com
www.cardomain.com/id/sosuzguy


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