Headlamp Door Vacuum System Solution

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hbarbee
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:08 pm
TOA Membership Number: 1035
Years Owned: 1969
Location: Sealy, TX

Headlamp Door Vacuum System Solution

Postby hbarbee » Tue May 07, 2013 10:14 am

I have discovered a great solution for a failed headlamp door vacuum system on the 68-69 Toronado. The product listed below is almost a direct fit replacement for the stock vacuum actuator. I left all of the other original vacuum components in place during the restoration process. I have attached a picture of the installed unit. The only modification necessary is to slightly enlarge the mounting hole on the lower bracket so the actuator mounting shaft will pass through. You will also have to mount a DPDT switch under the instrument panel that can be reached easily to reverse 12VDC to power the actuator. I am not familiar with the dual 66-67 configuration, but AEI probably has a unit with the correct stroke that would fit in that application also.

Product ID: 302.120_6103T
Description: 3" Linear Actuator with Preset Limit Switch "IP65 Rated"
Price: $105.00
Web Site: http://www.aeicomp.com/
P1020486 test.jpg
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[attachment=0]A6103T.jpg
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HBARBEE 1969
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xgecko
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 pm
TOA Membership Number: 831
Years Owned: My first Toronado was a 1968 W-34 with the bucket seats and center console... (weeps gently) It was a New England rustbucket in 1982 after less than 14 years. So sad. But it is what infected me and before I knew it I had another '68, a '69, a '70 and eventually inherited a friend's '67 and another friends '73. After buying my brand new Grand Prix in 1988 I retired the last of my Toronados and pulled the 455 I had rebuilt along the way and put it into storage in a friend's barn where it is to this day.
In Mid September of 2010 I happened to see a repeat of the show where Jay Leno did his 66 Toronado and had an instant remission of the disease which resulted in my purchase of a 1969 in very good condition. I am now in the process of fully rehabilitating it and hope to have it on the road in the spring of 2011.
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Re: Headlamp Door Vacuum System Solution

Postby xgecko » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:45 am

Wow! You beat me to it and actually got something that works. Fantastic! I have done a fair amount of research on this but never actually bought anything. I think I will look into this further as my system is still not operational even though I restored the vacuum canister. I would much prefer the electric actuator.

Nice work indeed!
I have my Fuel Injected Toronado. Life is good! 8-)
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hbarbee
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:08 pm
TOA Membership Number: 1035
Years Owned: 1969
Location: Sealy, TX

Re: Headlamp Door Vacuum System Solution

Postby hbarbee » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:30 pm

Thanks. My vacuum actuator had failed years ago when my mom still drove the car. I never considered fixing it during the restoration and finally found this supplier. They provided enough specs on their site that I was pretty sure it would work. I promise that you will be pleased with the result. I already had the front end pieces off to send the car out for painting, but you will have to remove them to get to that lower bracket to enlarge the hole about 1/4". I used a drill press and slowly worked a bit through it.
HBARBEE 1969
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User avatar
xgecko
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 pm
TOA Membership Number: 831
Years Owned: My first Toronado was a 1968 W-34 with the bucket seats and center console... (weeps gently) It was a New England rustbucket in 1982 after less than 14 years. So sad. But it is what infected me and before I knew it I had another '68, a '69, a '70 and eventually inherited a friend's '67 and another friends '73. After buying my brand new Grand Prix in 1988 I retired the last of my Toronados and pulled the 455 I had rebuilt along the way and put it into storage in a friend's barn where it is to this day.
In Mid September of 2010 I happened to see a repeat of the show where Jay Leno did his 66 Toronado and had an instant remission of the disease which resulted in my purchase of a 1969 in very good condition. I am now in the process of fully rehabilitating it and hope to have it on the road in the spring of 2011.
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Re: Headlamp Door Vacuum System Solution

Postby xgecko » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:37 am

I am quite glad you got to this. As I said, about a year ago I did the research on electric actuators but never quite got to the point where I did anything as I had a vacuum actuator I repaired. Unfortunately something else in the vacuum circuit is not working and I had too many other things on my plate to deal with it.

I had planned to get around to addressing this but you went ahead and did the actual install so now we know what model of actuator will work. Fantastic!

Drilling a hole is the least of my concerns after installing EFI, Hydroboost and associated other upgrades such as electric fans. I love to modify my car if it is going to replace ancient technology with something a bit more modern yet in keeping with the original theme of the car.

Thanks again for the tip. I will be putting it on my list for some time this year.
I have my Fuel Injected Toronado. Life is good! 8-)
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waterzap
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:13 pm
TOA Membership Number: 1058
Years Owned: - 1967 Toronado
- 1978 Eldorado

Re: Headlamp Door Vacuum System Solution

Postby waterzap » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:24 am

Anybody ever done something like this to a 67?
I know the 66 canisters can be rebuilt, but I am not having much luck with the 67 ones. Besides, if they cost more than $150 or so to rebuild, I would rather just go electric.

waterzap
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:13 pm
TOA Membership Number: 1058
Years Owned: - 1967 Toronado
- 1978 Eldorado

Re: Headlamp Door Vacuum System Solution

Postby waterzap » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:28 am

Also, why did you install a switch?
Why not just wire the actuators to the headlight circuit? Just preference ?

User avatar
xgecko
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 pm
TOA Membership Number: 831
Years Owned: My first Toronado was a 1968 W-34 with the bucket seats and center console... (weeps gently) It was a New England rustbucket in 1982 after less than 14 years. So sad. But it is what infected me and before I knew it I had another '68, a '69, a '70 and eventually inherited a friend's '67 and another friends '73. After buying my brand new Grand Prix in 1988 I retired the last of my Toronados and pulled the 455 I had rebuilt along the way and put it into storage in a friend's barn where it is to this day.
In Mid September of 2010 I happened to see a repeat of the show where Jay Leno did his 66 Toronado and had an instant remission of the disease which resulted in my purchase of a 1969 in very good condition. I am now in the process of fully rehabilitating it and hope to have it on the road in the spring of 2011.
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Re: Headlamp Door Vacuum System Solution

Postby xgecko » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:32 am

I was going to ask the same question only with a relay in there. On the other hand it might be nice to be able to open then at any time for more airflow...

A parallel wiring connection might solve this such that you can either use the switch or the relay.
I have my Fuel Injected Toronado. Life is good! 8-)
Image

User avatar
xgecko
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 pm
TOA Membership Number: 831
Years Owned: My first Toronado was a 1968 W-34 with the bucket seats and center console... (weeps gently) It was a New England rustbucket in 1982 after less than 14 years. So sad. But it is what infected me and before I knew it I had another '68, a '69, a '70 and eventually inherited a friend's '67 and another friends '73. After buying my brand new Grand Prix in 1988 I retired the last of my Toronados and pulled the 455 I had rebuilt along the way and put it into storage in a friend's barn where it is to this day.
In Mid September of 2010 I happened to see a repeat of the show where Jay Leno did his 66 Toronado and had an instant remission of the disease which resulted in my purchase of a 1969 in very good condition. I am now in the process of fully rehabilitating it and hope to have it on the road in the spring of 2011.
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Re: Headlamp Door Vacuum System Solution

Postby xgecko » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:40 am

As for whether or not you can do this for the 66-67 the answer is yes, but you need to match the stroke of the actuator to the stroke of your vacuum unit and you may need two actuators (I do not recall how they worked; they might be connected to a common bar mechanism or they may be operated independently which is what my memory is suggesting).

The key parameters are the stroke length and the overall length of the actuator.
I have my Fuel Injected Toronado. Life is good! 8-)
Image

waterzap
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:13 pm
TOA Membership Number: 1058
Years Owned: - 1967 Toronado
- 1978 Eldorado

Re: Headlamp Door Vacuum System Solution

Postby waterzap » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:44 am

You are right about the relay. Probably pull bit more current than you want on your headlights. But put the relay on the headlight switch.

The two lights are on two actuators. If I measure the stroke, and its 2.78 inches, would a 3 inch stroke actuator then work?

Don’t know about the other vehicles, but the 67 has little vacuum switches that hold the lights up. Then when vacuum is applied to them, the lights will drop down. Not sure if that is the preferred method, or would you keep current to the electrical actuators to keep the doors open? Could probably get little electrical switches to do the same thing.
Would rather go fully electrical, or fully vacuum. Not a hybrid system. The vacuum parts are all very old and getting harder to get by the day. This is not a show car, and most people wont know the vacuum system is out if you don’t tell them

User avatar
xgecko
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 pm
TOA Membership Number: 831
Years Owned: My first Toronado was a 1968 W-34 with the bucket seats and center console... (weeps gently) It was a New England rustbucket in 1982 after less than 14 years. So sad. But it is what infected me and before I knew it I had another '68, a '69, a '70 and eventually inherited a friend's '67 and another friends '73. After buying my brand new Grand Prix in 1988 I retired the last of my Toronados and pulled the 455 I had rebuilt along the way and put it into storage in a friend's barn where it is to this day.
In Mid September of 2010 I happened to see a repeat of the show where Jay Leno did his 66 Toronado and had an instant remission of the disease which resulted in my purchase of a 1969 in very good condition. I am now in the process of fully rehabilitating it and hope to have it on the road in the spring of 2011.
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Re: Headlamp Door Vacuum System Solution

Postby xgecko » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:23 am

I would suggest that most of these actuators are designed to run from limit to limit. You might have to adjust the mounting to allow for a full extend. You are asking some of the questions I was going to be analyzing when I did this.

Assuming that the actuator operates from limit to limit then you will not need to keep energizing the unit. Typically you energize it in a given direction until it hits the limit then an internal locking mechanism usually locks the actuator - although all of this is customizable and so the real answer depends on how the unit he found actually works.

I may get one in the near future to evaluate. If hbarbee does not post any answers before then I will be glad to provide them once I have them.

I do not see any reason for a hybrid system. I would wire the actuator(s) to a DPDT relay, and then provide the input signal from the headlight circuit. When you energize the headlights the relay will close one of the two DPDT throws and the signal will be sent to the extend input of the actuator. When you turn off the headlights this will switch the relay to the other pole and send the retract input a signal. Or so I suspect.
I have my Fuel Injected Toronado. Life is good! 8-)
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