66 Toro Ignition system question

[xgecko]

You forgot Left To Die after Found On Road Dead...
Then there is Fouled On Race Day

I am not fond of Ford's either. I won't go near what you can do with Pontiac - although I did have a couple of Grand Prixs and are somewhat partial to modern Pontiacs - RIP!

Got a bit of an issue about computers, eh? Well, modern computers are much more hardy than the first ones that came out. Here we have another excellent example of being at opposite ends of the spectrum; I am a Mechanical Engineer with a long history of involvement with computers at all levels - I treat them like we do these old cars, they are simply systems that I take apart and put back together with aplomb. As such I see them as some of the most reliable things ever built where many see them in a very different light. This of course means I want as many computers in my old Toronado as I can get into it; I want Fuel Injection and Distributorless Ignition and I would do ABS if I could as well as Variable Valve Timing and any other technology I could implement. I will probably build a car computer for the nav system at some point.

I do have to point out that if you do not like electronics due to reliablity issues then the last thing in the world you would ever want is mechanical fuel injection which is in effect a massive mechanical hack. Fuel Injection and DIS are what computers are made for; both are actually far simpler when computer controlled than when done mechanically as there are fewer moving parts and the overall system is actually much simpler contrary to popular belief. Put the computer where it gets a decent air flow for cooling and it should last the lifetime of the car.

Ultimately computers allow us to do things that would otherwise be impossible. Computers can take in all sorts of data and compute exact air/fuel ratios or spark timing based on conditions, not on an approximation made with mechanical analogs. Think about modern cars; you buy one and do basically nothing but change the oil and put gas in it for at least if not more than 100,000 miles. When our Toronados were built this was unheard of!

And Sparky nailed it, these ports would not be useful for anything except destroying a set of heads. DI requires substantial engineering and as I said before it is way beyond anything we are ever likely to see. Besides, it absolutely requires a computer! What were you thinking?

[Twilight Fenrir]

Alrighty, back to the orriginal question....

I can't seem to get the fuse block out, and I'm a little hesitant to start just yanking at it... Is there somewhere else I can attatch the ignition power supply? Somewhere more accessable?

Thanks.

[xgecko]

All you need is an ignition switched 12 v source that has sufficient current capacity to handle the few amps it will draw.

You can also directly attach to the battery source and run it through a relay that is controlled by a low-current ignition switched source.

Let me take a look at my schematic diagrams....

Hard to tell what the best option is from a quick look, it will take a bit more digging. I am going to have to solve this also, when do you need to know? I will be attacking this within the next few weeks and will have to have a solution, if you can wait until then I can do the research.

Failing that it does look like the resistive wire currently going to the coil transitions somewhere to a standard wire. That may be the best bet if we can identify where this takes place. I can perhaps scope it out on my 69 later today and see what I find; like I said, I need to solve this one way or another.

Another potential option that needs investigation is any heater or light power source. My battery is out right now but you may be able to identify a fairly large gauge wire that is ignition switched and you can tap into that.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Well, the wire actually coming out of the coil is black with a pink stripe on it. Acording the diagram, it looks like the wire branches out and hits the ignition switch itself, and down to the starter solenoid. So just bypassing it at the fuse block alone may cause other problems.

There's that nice great big positive terminal right on top of the passenger side wheel well, but it's on all the time. I thought about tapping into that big red wire that supplies power to the windows, and seat, coming up right under the drivers side interior panel under the dash. But that might overload the circuit. It's an 8-10 ga. wire though...

Could i use the resistance wire itself as the switching wire for the relay? O.o That would make life rediculously easy.

I'd like to get my car on the road this thursday If I don't figure out the ignition issues by then, I'm throwing the points back in there until I do find out

[xgecko]

Yes, you can use the ignition wire as a signal source for a relay that will switch 12v at 5 or so amps with a 5V-9V input rating. I think the actual voltage from that wire is around 6V or so but you can measure it and select the appropriate value. I may in fact go this route myself now that we are talking about it; it is very easy and you can take the source point for the 12V from the battery.

[Twilight Fenrir]

this should do, right? Reviews say it works for low voltage signal wires, and it's rated at 10 amps...

http://m.radioshack.com/radioshack/prod ... yId=&path=

[xgecko]

I like this:

http://m.radioshack.com/radioshack/product/detail.do?itemId=2049722&categoryId=1092585&path=Home%7CHobby+%26+Do-It-Yourself%7CComponent+parts%7CRelays+%26+transformers%7C12VDC%2F10A+DPDT+Plug-in+Relay

With this socket:

http://m.radioshack.com/radioshack/product/detail.do?itemId=2062476&categoryId=1092585&path=Home%7CHobby+%26+Do-It-Yourself%7CComponent+parts%7CRelays+%26+transformers%7CSocket+for+10-Amp+Plug-In+Relay

My reasoning is that this allows for easy replacement should there ever be a problem...

[Schurkey]

Sure, you "can" use the existing resistor wire to trigger a relay that provides battery voltage to the ignition coil.

Kinda pointless, though. You could put crimp-terminals onto a length of 12-gauge wire, plug one end into the FUSE BOX and the other end into the coil or HEI, and you don't have a relay to fail.

Tape up the existing resistor wire so it cannot ground.

Use a test light or multimeter to find a suitable terminal in the fusebox; you need one that's powered in "run" and in "crank" but not with the key "off" or in "accessory".

Hint: the terminal you're looking for probably has the label "Ign" or something similar printed right next to it. If I get a chance, I'll take a photo of my '66's fuse box.

[xgecko]

Schurkey has an excellent description of a simple way to do it, however, if I recall, Twilight is having a hard time with his fuse box.

I will see what seems easiest soon; I will first investigate the fuse box, however, if that does turn out to be a problem the relay is a good solution if you don't mind dealing with it. I haven't gotten around to checking out the FB yet, so I am not familiar with how easy it is to access for adding wiring.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Well, I bought a relay, and connector. A different one that looked better/easier. It's not a permanent solution, but it will leave me free to tinker with it when I have more time.

There's wires going into both the top, and bottom of the fusebox, and there's no slack. I can't pull mine out far enough to get to the back. the relay was cheap, will be easy.