Insane serpentine belt kit...

Anything that you can see under the hood, all underhood electrical, fuel, coolant and A/C.
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xgecko
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 pm
TOA Membership Number: 831
Years Owned: My first Toronado was a 1968 W-34 with the bucket seats and center console... (weeps gently) It was a New England rustbucket in 1982 after less than 14 years. So sad. But it is what infected me and before I knew it I had another '68, a '69, a '70 and eventually inherited a friend's '67 and another friends '73. After buying my brand new Grand Prix in 1988 I retired the last of my Toronados and pulled the 455 I had rebuilt along the way and put it into storage in a friend's barn where it is to this day.
In Mid September of 2010 I happened to see a repeat of the show where Jay Leno did his 66 Toronado and had an instant remission of the disease which resulted in my purchase of a 1969 in very good condition. I am now in the process of fully rehabilitating it and hope to have it on the road in the spring of 2011.
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Insane serpentine belt kit...

Postby xgecko » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:57 am

:o
I want this kit. Hope to save my pennies ($2k) and do it during my next winter pass... These are available through Jegs (http://www.jegs.com)

http://www.marchperformance.com/styletrack_olds.html

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A few less pennies will get you a two belt system:

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I have my Fuel Injected Toronado. Life is good! 8-)
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Twilight Fenrir
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:29 am
TOA Membership Number: 839
Years Owned: 1982 Chevrolet El Camino
1986 Pontiac Fiero
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado

Re: Insane serpentine belt kit...

Postby Twilight Fenrir » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:30 pm

xgecko wrote::o
I want this kit. Hope to save my pennies ($2k) and do it during my next winter pass... These are available through Jegs (http://www.jegs.com)

http://www.marchperformance.com/styletrack_olds.html

Image


My god, that is the prettiest engine I have ever seen... O.O Wish I had the kind of scratch to throw that in... But.aren't serpentine belts more of a nuissance than v-belts?
TOA #839

User avatar
xgecko
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 pm
TOA Membership Number: 831
Years Owned: My first Toronado was a 1968 W-34 with the bucket seats and center console... (weeps gently) It was a New England rustbucket in 1982 after less than 14 years. So sad. But it is what infected me and before I knew it I had another '68, a '69, a '70 and eventually inherited a friend's '67 and another friends '73. After buying my brand new Grand Prix in 1988 I retired the last of my Toronados and pulled the 455 I had rebuilt along the way and put it into storage in a friend's barn where it is to this day.
In Mid September of 2010 I happened to see a repeat of the show where Jay Leno did his 66 Toronado and had an instant remission of the disease which resulted in my purchase of a 1969 in very good condition. I am now in the process of fully rehabilitating it and hope to have it on the road in the spring of 2011.
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Re: Insane serpentine belt kit...

Postby xgecko » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:38 pm

Actually, you have it backwards. Modern Serpentine belt systems are much more reliable as they have an automatic tensioner - something that this kit actually lacks for some odd reason. Much easier to replace a single belt, too.

The belts themselves last longer and are much better made. The tensioner also handles a phenomenon called 'belt wave' wherein the belt develops a wave that travels around it slightly reducing the tension in a regular pattern. It is a real bummer that this kit lacks the tensioner, but since it did not have one to begin with and their adjustment system far superior to the original, I can live with it.

Besides, it sure looks trick, eh? 8-)
I have my Fuel Injected Toronado. Life is good! 8-)
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Twilight Fenrir
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:29 am
TOA Membership Number: 839
Years Owned: 1982 Chevrolet El Camino
1986 Pontiac Fiero
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado

Re: Insane serpentine belt kit...

Postby Twilight Fenrir » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:01 pm

Huh... Well, I gotta say, if I had a few extra grand lying arround i'd pick that up... And I still might someday... I'll hold off on prettying up my engine bay 'till I can afford that baby. Thanks!
TOA #839

User avatar
xgecko
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 pm
TOA Membership Number: 831
Years Owned: My first Toronado was a 1968 W-34 with the bucket seats and center console... (weeps gently) It was a New England rustbucket in 1982 after less than 14 years. So sad. But it is what infected me and before I knew it I had another '68, a '69, a '70 and eventually inherited a friend's '67 and another friends '73. After buying my brand new Grand Prix in 1988 I retired the last of my Toronados and pulled the 455 I had rebuilt along the way and put it into storage in a friend's barn where it is to this day.
In Mid September of 2010 I happened to see a repeat of the show where Jay Leno did his 66 Toronado and had an instant remission of the disease which resulted in my purchase of a 1969 in very good condition. I am now in the process of fully rehabilitating it and hope to have it on the road in the spring of 2011.
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Re: Insane serpentine belt kit...

Postby xgecko » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:04 pm

I'm thinking of selling a kidney for it next year... :lol:

Seriously, I went with a 69 Toro instead of a modern sport sedan so I figure I am already about $30K ahead of the game so what is a few bucks here and there over time? I only paid $3250 for my Toro so over time I can invest in some nice baubles every so often.
I have my Fuel Injected Toronado. Life is good! 8-)
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bcroe
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:25 pm
TOA Membership Number: 378
Years Owned: 79 Toronado or Eldorado

Insane serpentine belt kit...

Postby bcroe » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:36 pm

I had an 82 Olds with a serpentine belt. I noted if the tensioner failed, I couldn't drive the car. If the
air conditioner clutch bearing failed, or the power steering went, or the other idler, I was SOL. These
things have actually happened to me, mostly more than once. On my 81 I could take a V belt off the
air and still have water pump & alternator, drive home. I could also take the belt off the steering and
drive home. I converted the 82 back to V belts, I don't understand why anyone would risk being SOL
over a common failure of an unessential component. Bruce Roe

Otto Skorzeny
Posts: 939
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:41 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: 1966 Toronado

Re: Insane serpentine belt kit...

Postby Otto Skorzeny » Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:23 am

I agree! I've never owned a car with a single, serpentine belt. I don't understand why anyone would convert to that system.

My brother's Buick Lucerne's tension pulley broke and that was it for the alternator and water pump. Overheating and battery draining all at once.

I guess people like the "clean" look of a single belt.

User avatar
xgecko
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 pm
TOA Membership Number: 831
Years Owned: My first Toronado was a 1968 W-34 with the bucket seats and center console... (weeps gently) It was a New England rustbucket in 1982 after less than 14 years. So sad. But it is what infected me and before I knew it I had another '68, a '69, a '70 and eventually inherited a friend's '67 and another friends '73. After buying my brand new Grand Prix in 1988 I retired the last of my Toronados and pulled the 455 I had rebuilt along the way and put it into storage in a friend's barn where it is to this day.
In Mid September of 2010 I happened to see a repeat of the show where Jay Leno did his 66 Toronado and had an instant remission of the disease which resulted in my purchase of a 1969 in very good condition. I am now in the process of fully rehabilitating it and hope to have it on the road in the spring of 2011.
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Re: Insane serpentine belt kit...

Postby xgecko » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:04 am

I love my Serp belt. It looks fantastic so it gets lots of 'Wows', it is easy to maintain, and it is far more reliable than those crappy V belts. In case you did not pick it up, I hate V belts. I can tell you stories of V-Belt failures, which happen far more often than Serp belt failures. I have seen serious problems driving accessories, I have had belt whine and so on.

On top of all that, I have no tensioner to fail so that will never happen. It is impossible for a component you do not have to fail. As for the idlers? Well, mine are clearly built with good bearings so I do not anticipate much of an issue there. Even if one fails the belt will still work for long enough to get home in most failure modes, so it is not a big deal if you pay attention and fix it in a timely manner.

Reliability? Well, the statistics from modern cars is stark. Far greater reliability; cars routinely go over 100K miles without touching these belts or much of anything else for that matter. No V-belt system can say that. Yes, of course there are failures, and modern cars tend to be designed with this in mind so they can limp home if need be or just call AAA. The evidence, however, is very clear. I have numerous folks that run service centers and they all agreed when I did the conversion that reliability was one thing I will have increased.

Being an Engineer, I understand that the failure rate of Serp belts is far lower than that of V belts, so all that whining is just plain nonsense. Failures of almost anything can happen, so if failure is such an issue you probably should not drive cars or do much of anything else. Yes, in the rare event of a failure, it can bring the whole car down, but that happens so rarely I am not going to worry about it in the slightest.

You know, all this good stuff is actually progress. Keeping your head in the sand and trying to deny progress is never going to make progress stop or in general leave us better off. If we did not constantly improve things then you would still be scrounging for food with your hands and tools would not exist. All you folks are saying is you want things to stand still based on when you were kids. Sorry, the rest of us understand that things generally get better, not worse.

I love my EFI, my computer controlled timing, my electric fans, my hydroboost and all the other upgrades I have done and will do. They all add to my enjoyment (this is the primary point, after all) and I really do not care what others think, especially when they are wrong.

:D

Please take all of this as it is intended, my personal opinion on a matter of personal opinion. Everyone is quite welcome to have a very different opinion because they all have exactly the same value... and you all asked for it by whining about my belt! ;)
I have my Fuel Injected Toronado. Life is good! 8-)
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Otto Skorzeny
Posts: 939
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:41 pm
TOA Membership Number: 0
Years Owned: 1966 Toronado

Re: Insane serpentine belt kit...

Postby Otto Skorzeny » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:07 am

All that is probably true, but;

If it does break on the road, you're screwed. V belts can often be replaced without tools or with one of those Fitzall repair belts in an emergency. Serps require a little more effort and tools to replace on the road.

Also, people like us that drive old cars with V belts are much more aware of the condition of our under hood systems than the average Joe, so we have fewer breakdowns anyway since we're always under the hood fixing things before they break.

I agree that Serps are better for new cars on which the owner never opens the hood.

I've never owned a modern car and have never had a V belt break. I did have the rubber disintegrate on the harmonic balancer of a 66 Mustang which left the V belt flapping around under there.

I prefer the simplicity and ease with which a v belt can be replaced and the fact that one broken belt will not shut down every ancilliary system under the hood.

User avatar
xgecko
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 pm
TOA Membership Number: 831
Years Owned: My first Toronado was a 1968 W-34 with the bucket seats and center console... (weeps gently) It was a New England rustbucket in 1982 after less than 14 years. So sad. But it is what infected me and before I knew it I had another '68, a '69, a '70 and eventually inherited a friend's '67 and another friends '73. After buying my brand new Grand Prix in 1988 I retired the last of my Toronados and pulled the 455 I had rebuilt along the way and put it into storage in a friend's barn where it is to this day.
In Mid September of 2010 I happened to see a repeat of the show where Jay Leno did his 66 Toronado and had an instant remission of the disease which resulted in my purchase of a 1969 in very good condition. I am now in the process of fully rehabilitating it and hope to have it on the road in the spring of 2011.
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Re: Insane serpentine belt kit...

Postby xgecko » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:44 am

No, that is not at all a problem... 8-) I have a spare belt in my car and the adjustment tool in the toolkit. I would have to be rather dumb to do anything else given your objections, no? :P The biggest problem I face is the half inch of clearance between one of the pulley nose covers (a vanity item) and the back of my electric fan. Oh, BTW, with my setup I never lose power to a belt driven fan... so cooling will never be an issue from that regard.

I will agree with your second line of reasoning while adding that I would much prefer to look under the hood, confirm that the Serp belt has many years left on it and go driving rather than the far more frequent "oops, better change my belt" that will inevitably happen far more often with V-Belts. Or worse, spotting that damned belt that flipped... In fact, given the amount of driving I do, this belt should last me many years before I need to deal with it again from a replacement standpoint.

That said, if you have never owned a modern car then you are really doing yourself a dis-service. As much as I love my Toronado - and believe me, I do as you should well understand - the new cars are just phenomenal. Amazing performance, fantastic quality, superb craftsmanship, great looks, interiors that they could not even dream about back in the day and so much more. You really have no idea what you are missing. Both have their values, and to write off new cars in my opinion simply robs you of a very good experience.

The Modern Cadillacs, the Camaro, the new Voodoo engine in the Mustang, any high performance Eurocar, the Hellcat, on and on. The number of fantastic cars I never dreamed would exist back when I was a kid is legion. You really should go drive some of the better ones just to have the experience even if you are not going to buy.

I drove the Jaguar XF and the Cadillac ATS-V back to back and they were both amazing in different ways. The Jag was refined, smooth, powerful, luxurious and more all while driving superbly. The Cadillac was not as refined, smooth or luxurious but it had a 6-speed manual and that sweet twin-turbo V6 putting out 464 HP with an intensity that is hard to find in classic cars unless you heavily modify them. And the handling! Nothing built back then can match without massive upgrades.

If you are dismissing new cars out of hand then you are just losing out on some wonderful machines. I am not suggesting you run out and buy one - although you may find you do if you take my advice, they are that good. Don't sell yourself short!

You are, of course, welcome to choose as you will. However, I have the same choice, and irrespective of your opinion to the contrary I am far happier with my Serp setup than I ever was with that crappy old nasty looking V-belt setup that never worked well for me.

What is so wonderful about this hobby is that I can think you crazy while you are out there enjoying every minute of your time with your hot rod while I am out there enjoying every minute of the car you think I am nuts to be in! To each his own, and that is how it should be!
I have my Fuel Injected Toronado. Life is good! 8-)
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