1968 Toro; how rare is it?

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Doc Hubler
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1968 Toro; how rare is it?

Postby Doc Hubler » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:00 pm

I have found a 1968 Toro with bucket seats and center console. Seems to be stock, not some tribute car. But how can I verify that? If authentic, how rare is that option really? The car is a "standard" model as indicated by the VIN, but as far as I can tell it's mostly a standard Toro otherwise with original 455 (engine was taken out to put in a 442, but then the guy changed his mind and lost interest in his project, so the original engine is still with the Toro).

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69W34
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Re: 1968 Toro; how rare is it?

Postby 69W34 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Doc Hubler wrote:I have found a 1968 Toro with bucket seats and center console. Seems to be stock, not some tribute car. But how can I verify that? If authentic, how rare is that option really? The car is a "standard" model as indicated by the VIN, but as far as I can tell it's mostly a standard Toro otherwise with original 455 (engine was taken out to put in a 442, but then the guy changed his mind and lost interest in his project, so the original engine is still with the Toro).


Toros with Bucket seats w/wo consoles are not all that rare however they are not just falling out of the trees either. The numbers may very over the years covering 68 -70 do in part to the whims of a dealers orders for stock, and public desire for a special order, tempered by the total volume built in a given year.

Based on information derived from first generation database one could place the number bucket seat console cars at about 3-6 percent. There were 26,454 68 toro built with no way of knowing how many were BS/C cars .. at the high side 6% that about 1600 cars.

All 68s VIN's are 94 as in 394878M this also applies to the style code of the body plate all 68's plates read 68-39487 to be sure the engine is for this car 68 brought VIN stampings to both the block and trans case.

As for the 68 models the Standard / Deluxe terms were dropped in favor of 'base' / 'custom' to up grade to the Custom one would specify the Y69 option. With the 68 the only way to ID /verify either model is to refer to the fire wall /cowl body plate trim code a base model with bench seat will have a 06x, the custom with bench seat will have a 08x. and a custom with bucket seats with have a 09x the X in each case represents as given interior color.



Doc: I Hope this is of some help.
Bill
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Doc Hubler
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Re: 1968 Toro; how rare is it?

Postby Doc Hubler » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:35 pm

Bill,

A few more specifics about this 68 Toro. It is a Standard based on the VIN. Also, the trim tag had 060, meaning the standard Morrocean vinyl (with center designed imprinted).

When I said center console, what I should have written was that it has the console with shifter. The steering column is blank, and never had the shifter there. So perhaps this doesn't change anything that you earlier wrote, but just wanted to check. Unfortunately, I had written down all the numbers and have managed to lose the paper for now. I may have to go back and check again. Is there anyway to confirm the engine would be a 68 455, or that it even was assembled for that particular car?

Thanks! Tim

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69W34
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Re: 1968 Toro; how rare is it?

Postby 69W34 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:52 pm

Ok ... as it was 68 brought the console/floor shifter to the E-bodies.

The motors casting number would reflect the 455 ( 396021 F ) and the VIN stamping on the block will verify that it is /or not, the original motor (see photo reference) the alternator brackets make it tough see but some contorting and a good small flash light help, It will most likely be greasy so a spray can of brake /carb cleaner and old rag can be helpful too.

VIN stamping will be a derivative e.g. 38M6xxxxx should /must match the Dash VIN plate.
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Doc Hubler
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Re: 1968 Toro; how rare is it?

Postby Doc Hubler » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:46 pm

Bill,

Found the info I had written down on this 68 Toro.

VIN: 394878M61991 (as expected, this was moved to the top of dash, visible through windshield)

Body Tag:
O4C (means assembled in 3rd week of April)

ST 68-39487 EUC030186 (Base Toronado, 1968 Body Style, Lansing, MI, body serial number)
TR 060 B5 PAINT (Black Morrocean vinyl Strato-Bench Seats; exterior paint is the dark blue color with teal vinyl roof)


I think there was a casting number on the block or possibly on the oil filler neck that I wrote down. That number is 8633986. I will have to go back and look for the number on the boss on the front of the engine as you indicated.

What I'm getting from this discussion, correct me if I'm wrong, is that someone swapped some bucket seats and console into this car? Could a dealer have done that after the car was on the lot? The steering column doesn't indicate that someone just took the shifter column out -- it is blank and looks factory or possibly dealer installed. The center console looks like it fits, and isn't just off a Cutlass (after all, there is a trans hump on the other cars). The linkage may be different for the two as well, so I thought it looked factory, but the tags don't indicate that. Seems unlikely someone would spend the extra dough for this on a base Toro, but that stuff does happen.

Thanks for all your help!
Tim

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69W34
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Re: 1968 Toro; how rare is it?

Postby 69W34 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:09 pm

Hi Tim
Ok ... this VIN 8M61991 is missing a digit? you are correct the casting number is on the deck to the right of the filler neck however "That number 8633986." does not correlate to any known casting number.

Now, due to lack of information, I can not say for certain that this 68 came with a bench seat, nor can I say for certain that it did not come with Buckets and console. Here are some things to look at, first bench seats were bolted in at each end, if buckets were added those out board mounts would be employed, to secure the buckets inboard some sort of bolts through the floor would need to be added (view from underneath.) If there is no evidence of that and the seat is tight I would be inclined to accept that they are original. Next the console will have a carpeted skirt protruding out in front of the console. This covers the shift cable and there is also a rubber seal for the cable through the floor again (view from underneath.) Also check to see that the console lights are operative and if all of these points hold up, then i would say in all likelihood it is a bucket console car.

The problem is this, the seat code for a Custom with bench is 08x, a Custom with buckets is 09x indicating the difference. Currently there is not enough information as to what (if anything) differentiates Base models bench or buckets, hence the 060 code.

A quick follow up, last year I took some photos of a black 68 W34, which was a base model which it had buckets and console. I had not reviewed or logged these photos into the database yet. Here is the body plate not very clear picture but it clearly shows 060
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